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The Ocean Is The Ultimate Solution
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RAYSYNNRAYSYNN
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Post 2006-06-07 23:02   [Quote] 
"The Ocean Is The Ultimate Solution" from "Sleep Dirt" is about my all time favorite track by anybody.

What Im really wondering is if anybody knows anything about the origin of this piece. Or anything that the cheesy liner notes included in the CD version doesn't say?

I have a few theory's:
This could have began as a jam (maybe a tryout jam) with Bozzio & O'Hearn. But Did FZ play with them or overdub both guitar parts & synth ? Is FZ using a capo on his opening guitar part. It almost sounds like an amplified acoustic guitar,
capo'd to F# with the minor 3rd dropped to major. Almost mandolin like. With more of a banjo effect.
The ending guitar solo sounds like it has to be a LesPaul to me.

I know the second part of this existed on some boots & planned releases. So is it a pasting of 2 basic tracks ?
As I have seen the second half listed as "LIVE". I pretty sure the first part is studio all the way. Second half sorta bends in and out of sounding studio & sounding live..........anyone else hear that ?

Another theory is:
This is actually a previously composed piece & some parts were not exactly right but sounded pretty cool in the long run.
Maybe Bozzio & O'Hearn were reading this off paper & grabbing what they could.
One thing that is more than amazing is the key & scale changes towards the end. VERY UN-NATURAL. But FZ tends to chose several different modes that pretty much match exact from solo to backgound. A few of these scales are even foreign to jazz.

I'd be really interested to know if Im not the only one obsessed or curious about this song.

ANY info would be very cooooool.

thanx,

Raysynn
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pbuzby
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Post 2006-06-07 23:14   [Quote] 
The song was originally a long jam with FZ on acoustic accompanied by Bozzio and Dave Parlato. FZ edited together highlights from this and had Patrick O'Hearn overdub a new bass part, which was O'Hearn's audition for FZ's band. I believe (although I forget where I read it) that it was after that that FZ overdubbed the electric solo at the end. The song was never played live.

BTW, the Bozzio drum track which appeared on "Rubber Shirt" is apparently from another section of this jam.
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pbuzby
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Post 2006-06-07 23:20   [Quote] 
Bozzio writes about the song at http://www.terrybozzio.com/zappa/stu-tan2.html
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RAYSYNNRAYSYNN
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Post 2006-06-07 23:38   [Quote] 
Absolutely BEAUTIFUL !
Thanx for ALL that wonderful info
ALL questions answered.
Looks like Bozzio might love this piece as much as me...............and BOY ! If someone like me ever heard all 45 or so minutes of this, ...........might cause an orgasmic coma.
Damn..........open the vaults ZFT

thanx pbuzby

Raysynn
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Overnitefreak
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Post 2006-06-08 04:03   [Quote] 
Quote:
Is FZ using a capo on his opening guitar part. It almost sounds like an amplified acoustic guitar,
capo'd to F# with the minor 3rd dropped to major. Almost mandolin like. With more of a banjo effect.


This is most likely a bouzouki during this section. See this link for more details:

http://www.nvo.com/bouzouki/

Frank also played this instrument on Canard du Jors from Return of the Son of SUAPYG. A great track indeed.

Kind regards,
Overnitefreak
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RAYSYNNRAYSYNN
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Post 2006-06-16 18:01   [Quote] 
Quote:
Quote:
Is FZ using a capo on his opening guitar part. It almost sounds like an amplified acoustic guitar,
capo'd to F# with the minor 3rd dropped to major. Almost mandolin like. With more of a banjo effect.

This is most likely a bouzouki during this section. See this link for more details:


According to the Bozzio statement, It is a 12 string guitar with a VERY weird tuning & stereo pickups, most likely sligtly out of phase to each other. No capo........just weird tuning.

It does sound A LITTLE like the bouzouki, but there is a resonat tone in that instrument similar to sitar & sarod that is missing in the sound on "THE OCEAN". Plus it has that duel string sound like a 12 string or mandolin. The weirdness of the sound on that track is mostly to my ear, the strange muting he's getting. Like a real dead telecaster. Some of the tone sounds simular to "DOWN IN DE DEW" where FZ is using a fretless strat. I knew someone who had one of those. Very weird to play.......or try to play. The tonation totally wigs out on those things & they ARE rather sustainless.

I urge anybody with ANY interest to read the BOZZIO interview linked above. Some VERY GOOD info there

Ray
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bburnett
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Joined: 2005-04-20
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Post 2006-06-16 18:19   [Quote] 
I had Sleep Dirt on cassette and I played this track so many times I broke the cassette! DOH!

Hey RAYSYNNRAYSYNN,
any chance of me getting snail mail copy of Run Home Slow???

The torrent was cooking around 2 to 3kb so I gave up. I would still dig a copy. I'll even do a B&P
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BeatTheReaper
Joined: 2009-06-06
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Post 2017-11-23 12:11   [Quote] 
Does anyone have a new location or content of dead link: http://www.terrybozzio.com/zappa/stu-tan2.html

Thanks!
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cyranoDB
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Post 2017-11-23 12:41   [Quote] 
BeatTheReaper wrote:
Does anyone have a new location or content of dead link: http://www.terrybozzio.com/zappa/stu-tan2.html

Thanks!


Start with the Wayback Machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081120153546/http://www.terrybozzio.com/zappa/stu-tan2.html
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father-0blivion
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Post 2017-11-23 13:31   [Quote] 
Thanks cyranoDB

Quote:
The Ocean is the Ultimate Soloution

This track was recorded in the same studio I first heard Gregory Peccary in at the Record Plant in Hollywood. Frank had been experimenting with mic's and recording techniques etc. as was his want to do.
He came up with an incredible alternative tuning for his Fender 12 string, and an inventive process for recording it. ( This guitar had been modified I think by Rex Bogue-who had built Mahavishnu's custom guitars, restored Zappa's "Hendrix Stratocaster" that Jimi had set on fire at the Monterey Pop Festival(!), as well as being the inventor of "Balls Deluxe" built-in pre-amps!!)
This guitar had low string and high string discreet stereo outputs which Frank panned left and right. It also had a Barcus Berry pickup buried in the neck at the head stock,which he panned center.
The tuning was so that the low three strings were tuned to the intervals of M7-M7-m7, and the high strings to a tritone-M3 &m3;!! So every note or chord he played was an incredibly complex and atonal harmonic event!!!
Couple this with the innovative panning and the result was this wonderful "glass shattering" guitar sound that was completely unique and to my knowledge has never been duplicated since!
So he called bassist Dave Parlatto (from Orchestral Favorites) and myself into the studio to jam. At this point I was playing my own black, double bass, 5 tom Gretch kit (which is now owned by my good friend Wes Falconer and can be seen at his Kansas City "Explorers Drum Shop"-Wes got it from Danny Carey of "Tool"-another good friend and exellent drummer who still has and still plays my roto toms from "Missing Persons"!!!). Anyway, we played an inspired jam that went all over the place musically and lasted 45 minutes!
Frank edited it down to 15 mins. or so (whatever it is on the record now) and used only the best sections. (But I remember some absoutely burning sections were not used-maybe someday they'll release the original in it's entirety ).
Sometime soon after that my best friend, Pat O'Hearn came down to L.A. to play a week at the "Light House" in Hermosa Beach with legendary jazz saxophonist Dexter Gordon - who you might have seen acting and playing in the movie "'Round Midnight". I invited Pat to stay at my little place in Laurel Canyon to visit and to save him from having to pay for a hotel.
Pat played the first nights show while I was in the studio working with Frank, so I told him to come by the Record Plant after and meet Frank and listen to what we were doing.
Pat had his big accoustic bass in the car and he didn't want it stolen so we took it inside.
Frank, upon seeing Pat walk into the studio with an accoustic bass, excitedly asked" Do you play that thing?!". Pat nodded "yes", and Frank said "Whip it out!!"
He had been overdubbing some lead guitar on the edited version and wanted Pat to try some accoustic bass on it. Engineers leaped into action putting up several of the best mic's they had as Pat pulled up a stool, slid the 17th century Itallian bass from it's soft case and adjusted his headphones. When all was ready they played the track and pressed the red record button and my friend and favorite bass player literally tore it up!! Frank totally loved it and immediately they were overdubbing a section at a time (with Zappa directing tonal centers) and laying down the most gorgeous bass tones and burning playing that really made the piece come alive!

Then Zappa stopped him and said he thought electric bass would be better in the up coming sections, and wanted to know if Pat played electric bass. In a minute he pulled the electric bass ( which he really didn't specialize in at that time ) from the trunk of the car and proceeded to tear through the rest of the piece! It was probably sunrise when we finished and Frank knew Pat had already played 3 sets with Dexter, so he asked him to come in again tomorrow night and do some more.

From that chance meeting I achieved something bordering on the Historical! Not only did I get my best friend in the band so we could have more wonderful adventures travelling the world with Frank, but I also got to play with my favorite bass player who literally carried me throughout my time with Zappa by being so rhythmically advanced that no matter how out I took it, I could always count on Pat to come in on "one" with me - even if I was wrong! -his groove and feel were always flawless (check out his solo albums to hear how good he plays and programs percussion! ) , we had turned this jam into one of my favorite tracks ever, and finally Zappa, as well as I, loved Pat's sense of humor so much that it became the inspiration and basis for material on many of the classic tunes we recorded during that period. Mid-70's "fusion" Bozzio at it's best!!

_________________
''Just consider this..... You can be scared when it gets too real...''
(FZ: ''It Just Might Be A One-Shot Deal'')

'' 'n pretty soon, there won't be no street, for dummies to jog on, or doggies to dog on, religious fanatics, can make it be all gone...''
(FZ: ''Dumb All Over'')
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cyranoDB
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Post 2017-11-23 17:24   [Quote] 
father-0blivion wrote:
Thanks cyranoDB

Quote:
The Ocean is the Ultimate Soloution

This track was recorded in the same studio I first heard Gregory Peccary in at the Record Plant in Hollywood. Frank had been experimenting with mic's and recording techniques etc. as was his want to do.
He came up with an incredible alternative tuning for his Fender 12 string, and an inventive process for recording it. ( This guitar had been modified I think by Rex Bogue-who had built Mahavishnu's custom guitars, restored Zappa's "Hendrix Stratocaster" that Jimi had set on fire at the Monterey Pop Festival(!), as well as being the inventor of "Balls Deluxe" built-in pre-amps!!)
This guitar had low string and high string discreet stereo outputs which Frank panned left and right. It also had a Barcus Berry pickup buried in the neck at the head stock,which he panned center.
The tuning was so that the low three strings were tuned to the intervals of M7-M7-m7, and the high strings to a tritone-M3 &m3;!! So every note or chord he played was an incredibly complex and atonal harmonic event!!!
Couple this with the innovative panning and the result was this wonderful "glass shattering" guitar sound that was completely unique and to my knowledge has never been duplicated since!
So he called bassist Dave Parlatto (from Orchestral Favorites) and myself into the studio to jam. At this point I was playing my own black, double bass, 5 tom Gretch kit (which is now owned by my good friend Wes Falconer and can be seen at his Kansas City "Explorers Drum Shop"-Wes got it from Danny Carey of "Tool"-another good friend and exellent drummer who still has and still plays my roto toms from "Missing Persons"!!!). Anyway, we played an inspired jam that went all over the place musically and lasted 45 minutes!
Frank edited it down to 15 mins. or so (whatever it is on the record now) and used only the best sections. (But I remember some absoutely burning sections were not used-maybe someday they'll release the original in it's entirety ).
Sometime soon after that my best friend, Pat O'Hearn came down to L.A. to play a week at the "Light House" in Hermosa Beach with legendary jazz saxophonist Dexter Gordon - who you might have seen acting and playing in the movie "'Round Midnight". I invited Pat to stay at my little place in Laurel Canyon to visit and to save him from having to pay for a hotel.
Pat played the first nights show while I was in the studio working with Frank, so I told him to come by the Record Plant after and meet Frank and listen to what we were doing.
Pat had his big accoustic bass in the car and he didn't want it stolen so we took it inside.
Frank, upon seeing Pat walk into the studio with an accoustic bass, excitedly asked" Do you play that thing?!". Pat nodded "yes", and Frank said "Whip it out!!"
He had been overdubbing some lead guitar on the edited version and wanted Pat to try some accoustic bass on it. Engineers leaped into action putting up several of the best mic's they had as Pat pulled up a stool, slid the 17th century Itallian bass from it's soft case and adjusted his headphones. When all was ready they played the track and pressed the red record button and my friend and favorite bass player literally tore it up!! Frank totally loved it and immediately they were overdubbing a section at a time (with Zappa directing tonal centers) and laying down the most gorgeous bass tones and burning playing that really made the piece come alive!

Then Zappa stopped him and said he thought electric bass would be better in the up coming sections, and wanted to know if Pat played electric bass. In a minute he pulled the electric bass ( which he really didn't specialize in at that time ) from the trunk of the car and proceeded to tear through the rest of the piece! It was probably sunrise when we finished and Frank knew Pat had already played 3 sets with Dexter, so he asked him to come in again tomorrow night and do some more.

From that chance meeting I achieved something bordering on the Historical! Not only did I get my best friend in the band so we could have more wonderful adventures travelling the world with Frank, but I also got to play with my favorite bass player who literally carried me throughout my time with Zappa by being so rhythmically advanced that no matter how out I took it, I could always count on Pat to come in on "one" with me - even if I was wrong! -his groove and feel were always flawless (check out his solo albums to hear how good he plays and programs percussion! ) , we had turned this jam into one of my favorite tracks ever, and finally Zappa, as well as I, loved Pat's sense of humor so much that it became the inspiration and basis for material on many of the classic tunes we recorded during that period. Mid-70's "fusion" Bozzio at it's best!!


No problem. Thank you father-0blivion for capturing it and posting it here. Very Happy
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pbuzby
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Post 2017-11-23 17:29   [Quote] 
Bozzio had a great series of commentaries about his Zappa stint from Bongo Fury through Zoot Allures on his site. Unfortunately he stopped there and there were only Amazon blurbs about the rest of the Zappa albums on Bozzio's site.
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Ed Organmax
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Post 2017-11-23 22:45   [Quote] 
I wonder how many edits are there in the entire 13-minute track? Think I've heard at least one. As for the Rubber Shirt drum track I always thought that came from a prototype attempt to record "Outside Now" (as heard on the Lather outtakes bootleg) but "Friendly Little Finger" does feature drums taken from the "Ocean..." jam sessions. Tempo-wise it's very similar to the latter half of "Ocean", but is it a completely different performance with no matching elements? I mean FZ sometimes used Vinnie's drumming for more than one piece. But I suspect that the last six or so minutes from "Ocean" originally went on for at least 15 minutes or so, leaving a fair bit to pick and choose.

A lot to unpack. Hopefully one day there will be a release of the original 45 minute jam.
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pbuzby
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Post 2017-11-24 00:02   [Quote] 
Ed Organmax wrote:
As for the Rubber Shirt drum track I always thought that came from a prototype attempt to record "Outside Now" (as heard on the Lather outtakes bootleg)


I think that Lather Outtakes set had not yet surfaced when I posted about "Rubber Shirt" in 2006. Not sure now where I got that info from that post, and it may be incorrect.
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BeatTheReaper
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Post 2017-11-24 09:40   [Quote] 
Thanks cyranoDBand father-0blivion!!
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