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1988 06 02 Milano Italy 113'55 AUD (capaldi - Boguspomp) Phase corrected
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boguspomp
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Joined: 2004-11-30
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Location: Somewhere in Italy
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Post 2006-04-15 00:42   [Quote] 
1988.06.02 Zappa - Milano Italy 113:55
(Broadway the Hard Way Tour - Palatrussardi)

Aud 113,55 min B+ (after correction) ( now 2.5 secs shorter than before due to crossfade)

Transfered / Edit: capaldi
filler: walk
Phase correction etc : Boguspomp

Lineage:
AUD > cassette deck ? > cass/gen3 > A/D by Creative Audigy2 to HD > Waves Image Matrix / Trueverb > flac

More lineage > download > Protools HD > phase correction left channel/ dynamics control and volume adjustment/ crossfaded Torture and Joe's...> Flac level8 with SBA

This show was definitely out of phase - this time the left channel - which was corrected .
As the overall volume level was a little low I adjusted the peaks by bringing them down a bit and increasing the volume of the whole by 2.8 dB
The sound is now by far the best of the italian leg of the 88' tour.
As this 3rd gen version was supposed to be the one to remain in the Zappateers Vault as the definitve one ( until a lower gen appears), I thought it might be appropriate, to fix the little phase problem, as it would be a pity to have a "wrong" version in the vaults.
Enjoy

Disc1: 66:12
01. Audience
02. The Black Page,
03. Packard Goose,
04. Any Kind of Pain,
05. Stick Together,
06. My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama,
07. Willie the Pimp,
08. Montana,
09. City of Tiny Lites,
10. A Pound for a Brown,
11. I Ain’t Got no Heart,
12. Love of My Life,
13. Inca Roads

Disc2: 47:46
01. Advance Romance,
02. Bobby Brown,
03. The Torture Never Stops,
04. Lonesome Cowboy Burt,
05. The Torture Reprise, > crossfade into >
06. Joe’s Garage,
07. Why Does It Hurt When I Pee?,
08. Bolero,
09. Whippin’ Post
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unicrayon
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Post 2006-04-15 00:56   [Quote] 
We may as well have the best, thanks for the improvements Smile
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zeeker
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Post 2006-04-15 01:44   [Quote] 
Thanks for the fix
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karma
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Post 2006-04-15 02:01   [Quote] 
Thank you very much. Your improvements are always wellcome!

...there are many solvable problems which i still identify as 'source caractheristics'.
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Almanzart
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Post 2006-04-15 02:13   [Quote] 
smiley_abxe Nice emoticon, isnt it ? We never use that one !
Thanks for the corrections ! Very Happy
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WIU2B
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Post 2006-04-15 03:08   [Quote] 
Thanks a lot for fixing this. Did you explain how to fix this 'out of phase' problem somewhere?? Could you please lead me to it? I would like to be abled to check my tapes before I seed something.

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No wonder . . . it's not exactly normal, but what the fuck?'
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globual
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Post 2006-04-15 03:44   [Quote] 
Notwhatitused2B wrote:
Thanks a lot for fixing this. Did you explain how to fix this 'out of phase' problem somewhere?? Could you please lead me to it? I would like to be abled to check my tapes before I seed something.


try the fixed version of 1982 Rome thread
http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4524
for starters

globual
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WIU2B
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Post 2006-04-15 04:48   [Quote] 
Thanks Mr Globual for providing me with the menue, but I'm more into main course and desert.

btw (off topic) thanks for downloading the Offenbach sample.

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goodking
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Post 2006-04-15 05:02   [Quote] 
Thanks for the fix! ^^
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boguspomp
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Post 2006-04-15 05:07   [Quote] 
Out of phase can best be detected by looking at it, if you are not sure and not able to hear it.
The sound would be like this show or the forementioned roma 82' show, with the kind of coming out of a tube sound or something like this with the highs almost non existend. 1 channel out of phase means that you have a lot of phase cancellation. As in a stereo recording, both channels are not 100% the same. If 1 channel is inverted, the parts that are the same, get cancelled out and leave us with this funny phasey sound.
Usually you see the problem by comparing the left with the right channel. if the one channel has a peak and the other one has a valley could mean, it's extreme stereo ( possible with a SBD recording -multi mic feed etc) but means most of the time, that 1 channel is out of phase.
As most boot recordings are made , by having both mics in the hat or attached to the coat etc, the chances, that 1 channel records a peak and the other one a valley is quasi impossible.
the difference in volume can be up to 8 dB but the other channel would still resemble in a way the first channels peak or valley.
Take a 30 sec piece of the song you want to compare and paste it as a new song and then just invert 1 channel by using the invert/flip tool. if the sound improves the source was out of phase; if the sound gets weird and instead of being focused in the center moves to 1 side, it means that the file was ok before and is now out of phase.
As I said before in the rome post. To know completely if "AFTER fixing the 1 channel out of phase problem" you have to determine, whether you inverted the correct channel by listening to a kick drum or bass note with your hifisystem and check out, whether the woofer is pushing or pulling during the forementioned kick or bass note.
push would be in phase, pull would mean, you have to invert the other channel to get the stereo signal in phase.
anyways, I hope this little txt helped some. here its late and I had some drinks, so the explanation is as good as it can be at this time of the day.

P.S. in recording school they talk about phase cancellation each and every day, because it can destroy a recording completely.

franco
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WIU2B
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Post 2006-04-15 05:22   [Quote] 
Thanks Franco. Great explanation from a guy that had some drinks to a guy spilling his early morning coffee.

Have a great easter!!

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walk
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Post 2006-04-15 06:05   [Quote] 
thx from here for the fix too, but.....

how can a recording just copied from one tape to another come or get out of phase?

for my understanding out of phase channels would eliminate each other. of course this can only happen with identical channels, on other words in mono?

here is a link about phasing: http://sound.westhost.com/pcmm.htm

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boguspomp
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Post 2006-04-15 06:11   [Quote] 
exactly, mono would mean in theory, that they cancel each other out completely. Strangely enough, there is always a little let's call it sound left (not really music anymore though), but really muffled and without any highs or lows and just some middle mush.
with a stereo recording like this one, the cancellation is only partial but audible.
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flambay
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Post 2006-04-15 06:54   [Quote] 
Thanks capaldi for the orig.seed. Cool

Thanks boguspomp for the fix. cooler
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tordmullet
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Post 2006-04-15 07:56   [Quote] 
Thanks everyone involved in this one!!!!

And thanks for the out of phase tip boguspomp!
I knew how it worked but for some reason i could not find that
particular function on wavelab....but now i have;)
I wasn´t so tricky that i thought it would be!!!

Thanks!
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