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Frank Disliking Tommy Mars' Comping?  
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Colelumpkin
Joined: 2011-08-18
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Post 2020-05-19 07:22   [Quote] 
hey all!

i stumbled upon an allan zavod interview regarding the '84 tour where he discussed how (allegedly) frank "wanted something different" out of a keyboard player, explaining that while tommy mars was an incredible parts and chops keyboardist, he didn't accompany very well and would often be told by frank to lay out during solos. i then remembered reading an interview frank did with musicians only where he talked about having to replace "the first keyboard player" (i assume mars given the past three touring lineups) out of the joe's garage sessions because he was "noodling too much" and bring in peter wolf.

is it really the case that FZ didn't like tommy's comping? and if so, why do you think? to be honest, some of my favorite comping in FZ solos is tommy. "easy meat" from tinseltown rebellion has these glorious lydian EP chords, and in "outside now" from the video feed of the 1980 paris show, frank sounds glorious on top of tommy's rich, gorgeous voicings. i just think tommy behind frank was such a unique improvisation combo. would love to hear your thoughts!

cole Smile

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rubbershirt
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Post 2020-05-19 17:09   [Quote] 
I recall reading at least one interview with Zavod where he seemed to paint himself in a rather inflated self important light where he and FZ where very close friends. He was obviously a talented keyboard player but the interview didnít ring true to me. But hey what do I know...

I recently wrote here on another thread:
ďIt's been mentioned here before that one of the things that makes Joe's Garage special is that Tommy Mars larger than life sound is absent and in my mind it has a wonderful color due to Wolf's playing.Ē

It might be that sometimes itís just a matter of taste. One persons awesome comping is anotherís over playing distraction
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mb666
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Post 2020-05-19 18:58   [Quote] 
I'm fine with Tommy Mars's playing as long as he doesn't sing.
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oofers
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Post 2020-05-19 23:47   [Quote] 
Colelumpkin wrote:
i stumbled upon an allan zavod interview regarding the '84 tour where he discussed how (allegedly) frank "wanted something different" out of a keyboard player, explaining that while tommy mars was an incredible parts and chops keyboardist, he didn't accompany very well and would often be told by frank to lay out during solos.

I find this pretty funny, considering what we know Frank said about Zavod's soloing.

rubbershirt wrote:
I recall reading at least one interview with Zavod where he seemed to paint himself in a rather inflated self important light where he and FZ where very close friends. He was obviously a talented keyboard player but the interview didnít ring true to me.

Seems to jibe with what the OP said above. I would say - how many tours was Zavod on? And how many was Tommy on? That says it all, doesn't it? And we know Mars was also considered for 88. Anybody know if Zavod was even asked? (before or after Mars)

rubbershirt wrote:
I recently wrote here on another thread:
ďIt's been mentioned here before that one of the things that makes Joe's Garage special is that Tommy Mars larger than life sound is absent and in my mind it has a wonderful color due to Wolf's playing.Ē

It might be that sometimes itís just a matter of taste. One persons awesome comping is anotherís over playing distraction

In their cases, it's also timbre, isn't it?

Someone tell me if I am incorrect, but anything with both of them (Baby Snakes era forward), if I hear a Rhodes or Minimoog, I assume it's Wolf. If it's piano or organ, I assume Mars (and of course his signature brass sound that came later). Maybe that's a gross simplification, but it holds generally true, no? But agreed, I can't imagine JG with Mars. It's perfect the way it is.
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pbuzby
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Post 2020-05-20 00:51   [Quote] 
1980 article with separate interviews with FZ, Tommy Mars and Peter Wolf (in which FZ both praises and criticizes Tommy):
https://www.afka.net/Articles/1980-06_Keyboard.htm
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pbuzby
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Post 2020-05-20 00:55   [Quote] 
oofers wrote:


Someone tell me if I am incorrect, but anything with both of them (Baby Snakes era forward), if I hear a Rhodes or Minimoog, I assume it's Wolf. If it's piano or organ, I assume Mars (and of course his signature brass sound that came later). Maybe that's a gross simplification, but it holds generally true, no? But agreed, I can't imagine JG with Mars. It's perfect the way it is.


"City Of Tiny Lights," "Jones Crusher" and I think "Wild Love" had Wolf on piano (Yamaha electric grand).
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Twilkes
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Post 2020-05-20 09:11   [Quote] 
pbuzby wrote:
1980 article with separate interviews with FZ, Tommy Mars and Peter Wolf (in which FZ both praises and criticizes Tommy):
https://www.afka.net/Articles/1980-06_Keyboard.htm


"just do nowadays music with all the balls ahead"

Is that not a piece of wisdom that we could all learn from.
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pbuzby
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Post 2020-05-20 23:53   [Quote] 
pbuzby wrote:
oofers wrote:


Someone tell me if I am incorrect, but anything with both of them (Baby Snakes era forward), if I hear a Rhodes or Minimoog, I assume it's Wolf. If it's piano or organ, I assume Mars (and of course his signature brass sound that came later). Maybe that's a gross simplification, but it holds generally true, no? But agreed, I can't imagine JG with Mars. It's perfect the way it is.


"City Of Tiny Lights," "Jones Crusher" and I think "Wild Love" had Wolf on piano (Yamaha electric grand).


Also "Dancin' Fool."
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oofers
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Post 2020-05-21 15:20   [Quote] 
pbuzby wrote:
1980 article with separate interviews with FZ, Tommy Mars and Peter Wolf (in which FZ both praises and criticizes Tommy):
https://www.afka.net/Articles/1980-06_Keyboard.htm


Great article. There's no way to read everytning at afka, so I like to delve in when something like this comes up, relevant to a discussion.

FZ is definitely very candid here. Maybe because it's Keyboard mag, and so he doesn't mind getting into the personality traits of what makes (or doesn't make) a good musician for his needs. "Roadable", not noodling, etc.

I wonder what he means here:

interviewer wrote:
What about the band you had with Eddie Jobson?

FZ wrote:
Well, there were a lot of problems having the band with Eddie, because his priorities were in peculiar locations.


If he just means partying too much, then okay..... but I was wondering if he meant something specifically in terms of Jobson's musical abilities.

[site question - is there a way to quote without "wrote" appearing automatically?]
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rubbershirt
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Post 2020-05-21 16:17   [Quote] 
FZ wrote:
Well, there were a lot of problems having the band with Eddie, because his priorities were in peculiar locations.


I always took that, with no particular proof, to mean that he was more focused on his next career move
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father-0blivion
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Post 2020-05-21 16:45   [Quote] 
rubbershirt wrote:
FZ wrote:
Well, there were a lot of problems having the band with Eddie, because his priorities were in peculiar locations.

I always took that, with no particular proof, to mean that he was more focused on his next career move

I believe that is incorrect..... The story has slipped my mind but I think it was something to do with weird sexual-type things...

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rubbershirt
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Post 2020-05-21 17:42   [Quote] 
father-0blivion wrote:
rubbershirt wrote:
FZ wrote:
Well, there were a lot of problems having the band with Eddie, because his priorities were in peculiar locations.

I always took that, with no particular proof, to mean that he was more focused on his next career move

I believe that is incorrect..... The story has slipped my mind but I think it was something to do with weird sexual-type things...


Well for a band that had a road manager in love with a dog, a body guard trying to fuck the drummer, band members inserting fizzy drinks, etc and Eddie was difficult because of ď weird sexual-type things...Ē now youíve peaked my interest. He must have really raised the bar
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father-0blivion
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Post 2020-05-21 18:12   [Quote] 
rubbershirt wrote:
[... now youíve peaked my interest. He must have really raised the bar

Lol.... I'll have a look around and see if I can find what I'm thinking of...

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''Just consider this..... You can be scared when it gets too real...''
(FZ: ''It Just Might Be A One-Shot Deal'')

'' 'n pretty soon, there won't be no street, for dummies to jog on, or doggies to dog on, religious fanatics, can make it be all gone...''
(FZ: ''Dumb All Over'')
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franktomatozappa
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Post 2020-05-22 01:43   [Quote] 
The thing about Eddie that FZ might be referring to was that he liked to wear make up as if it was a theatrical performance. At least that's what EJ says I read somewhere....
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