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Posthumous Reissues
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IL Enema Bandit
Joined: 2020-04-23
Posts: 4
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Post 2020-04-23 04:58   [Quote] 
Hey all, this is my first post, so please be kind if my question has already been answered. Either way, my question is if there are any differences between the original posthumous releases and the UMe reissues. I bought all of the albums that Zappa Records put out in 2012, including the posthumous releases. However, I've only recently started getting into the albums that were not released in 2012. I only have the budget to get one copy of his albums, so I'm trying to get the best versions out there (if there's even a difference!) But for example, I saw that Road Tapes #1 was originally released in 2012 and then again in 2016. Are the two releases at all different? Or does it not matter at all for this and the other posthumous albums that weren't released in 2012?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
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Dark Clothes
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Post 2020-04-23 09:53   [Quote] 
IL Enema Bandit wrote:
Hey all, this is my first post, so please be kind if my question has already been answered. Either way, my question is if there are any differences between the original posthumous releases and the UMe reissues. I bought all of the albums that Zappa Records put out in 2012, including the posthumous releases. However, I've only recently started getting into the albums that were not released in 2012. I only have the budget to get one copy of his albums, so I'm trying to get the best versions out there (if there's even a difference!) But for example, I saw that Road Tapes #1 was originally released in 2012 and then again in 2016. Are the two releases at all different? Or does it not matter at all for this and the other posthumous albums that weren't released in 2012?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

I can only answer about Lumpy Money - the new UMe reissue is nearly identical to the original, only slightly clearer printing quality of the cover art. You can actually read the Lumpy Gravy story in the reissue - at least if you have a magnifying glass. The text was more blurred in the original release. Haven't noticed any differences in the audio content. Oh, and Carnegie Hall is out on three discs now, without the Persuasions set.

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Idiot
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Post 2020-04-23 11:21   [Quote] 
This page may be of some help http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/2012hotpoop.html

Of the posthumous UMe reissues, I think only the reduced Carnegie Hall and a (temporary?) cock-up with Feeding The Monkies At Ma Maison (see here http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=374278#374278) are the only differences.

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IL Enema Bandit
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Post 2020-04-24 17:51   [Quote] 
Alright I've done some digging, and I think the following is a summary of the US releases of the UMe reissues:

Official Original Title Reissue Status
Release Release
63 1994 Civilization Phaze III 2017 UMe reissue
64 1996 The Lost Episodes 2012 UMe reissue
65 1996 Lather 2012 UMe reissue
66 1996 FZ Plays the Music of FZ 2017 UMe reissue
67 1997 Have I Offended Someone? 2012 UMe reissue
68 1998 Mystery Disc 2012 UMe reissue
69 1999 Everything Is Healing Nicely 2017 UMe reissue
70 2002 FZ:OZ 2017 UMe reissue
71 2003 Halloween DVD-A only release; not reissued
72 2004 Joe's Corsage 2017 UMe reissue
73 2004 Joe's Domage 2017 UMe reissue
74 2004 QuAUDIOPHILIAc DVD-A only release; not reissued
75 2005 Joe's XMASage 2017 UMe reissue
76 2006 Imaginary Diseases 2017 UMe reissue
77 2006 MOFO (4 CD) not reissued?
78 2006 MOFO (2 CD) 2017 UMe reissue
79 2006 Trance-Fusion not reissued?
80 2007 Buffalo 2017 UMe reissue
81 2007 Dub Room Special 2017 UMe reissue
82 2007 Wazoo 2017 UMe reissue
83 2008 One Shot Deal 2017 UMe reissue
84 2008 Joe's Menage 2017 UMe reissue
85 2009 Lumpy Money 2016 UMe reissue
86 2009 Philly '76 2017 UMe reissue
87 2010 Greasy Love Songs 2017 UMe reissue
88 2010 Congress Shall Make No Law 2017 UMe reissue
89 2010 Hammersmith Odeon 2017 UMe reissue
90 2011 Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison 2017 UMe reissue
91 2011 Carnegie Hall 2017 UMe reissue
92 2012 Road Tapes #1 2016 UMe reissue
93 2012 Understanding America not reissued
94 2012 Finer Moments not reissued
95 2012 Baby Snakes: Compleat Soundtrack iTunes only release; not reissued
96 2013 Road Tapes #2 2016 UMe reissue
97 2013 A Token of His Extreme 2017 UMe reissue
98 2014 Joe's Camouflage 2017 UMe reissue
99 2014 Roxy by Proxy 2017 UMe reissue
100 2015 Dance Me This 2017 UMe reissue
101 2015 200 Motels: The Suites not reissued
102 2015 Roxy the Soundtrack only released with DVD/blu-ray; not reissued

Note that I ignored everything released 2016 and after because I don't think anything originally issued 2016 or after has been reissued. I'm not sure if the 4-CD MOFO or Trance-Fusion CDs have been reissued, so I put a question mark for their status.

But it sounds like none of the UMe reissues are remasters or anything (other than the Carnegie Hall and Ma Maison issues mentioned in a prior comment); they're just repackagings for people that missed them when they were first released.
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pbuzby
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Post 2020-04-24 18:41   [Quote] 
Some of thoses (Lost Episodes, Lather, I think Mystery Disc) had changes to the cover art and/or liner notes. Bonus tracks on Lather were removed. No remastering as far as I remember.
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Dark Clothes
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Post 2020-04-27 09:09   [Quote] 
IL Enema Bandit wrote:
Alright I've done some digging, and I think the following is a summary of the US releases of the UMe reissues:

Official Original Title Reissue Status
Release Release
63 1994 Civilization Phaze III 2017 UMe reissue
64 1996 The Lost Episodes 2012 UMe reissue
65 1996 Lather 2012 UMe reissue
66 1996 FZ Plays the Music of FZ 2017 UMe reissue
67 1997 Have I Offended Someone? 2012 UMe reissue
68 1998 Mystery Disc 2012 UMe reissue
69 1999 Everything Is Healing Nicely 2017 UMe reissue
70 2002 FZ:OZ 2017 UMe reissue
71 2003 Halloween DVD-A only release; not reissued
72 2004 Joe's Corsage 2017 UMe reissue
73 2004 Joe's Domage 2017 UMe reissue
74 2004 QuAUDIOPHILIAc DVD-A only release; not reissued
75 2005 Joe's XMASage 2017 UMe reissue
76 2006 Imaginary Diseases 2017 UMe reissue
77 2006 MOFO (4 CD) not reissued?
78 2006 MOFO (2 CD) 2017 UMe reissue
79 2006 Trance-Fusion not reissued?
80 2007 Buffalo 2017 UMe reissue
81 2007 Dub Room Special 2017 UMe reissue
82 2007 Wazoo 2017 UMe reissue
83 2008 One Shot Deal 2017 UMe reissue
84 2008 Joe's Menage 2017 UMe reissue
85 2009 Lumpy Money 2016 UMe reissue
86 2009 Philly '76 2017 UMe reissue
87 2010 Greasy Love Songs 2017 UMe reissue
88 2010 Congress Shall Make No Law 2017 UMe reissue
89 2010 Hammersmith Odeon 2017 UMe reissue
90 2011 Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison 2017 UMe reissue
91 2011 Carnegie Hall 2017 UMe reissue
92 2012 Road Tapes #1 2016 UMe reissue
93 2012 Understanding America not reissued
94 2012 Finer Moments not reissued
95 2012 Baby Snakes: Compleat Soundtrack iTunes only release; not reissued
96 2013 Road Tapes #2 2016 UMe reissue
97 2013 A Token of His Extreme 2017 UMe reissue
98 2014 Joe's Camouflage 2017 UMe reissue
99 2014 Roxy by Proxy 2017 UMe reissue
100 2015 Dance Me This 2017 UMe reissue
101 2015 200 Motels: The Suites not reissued
102 2015 Roxy the Soundtrack only released with DVD/blu-ray; not reissued

Note that I ignored everything released 2016 and after because I don't think anything originally issued 2016 or after has been reissued. I'm not sure if the 4-CD MOFO or Trance-Fusion CDs have been reissued, so I put a question mark for their status.

But it sounds like none of the UMe reissues are remasters or anything (other than the Carnegie Hall and Ma Maison issues mentioned in a prior comment); they're just repackagings for people that missed them when they were first released.

I don't want to be a pedant or anything, but most of those titles are in reality old stock distributed through UMe. I'll give you one example as a reference - FZPTMOFZ. It is very unlikely that they would have produced a reissue "mit Stoffbart" (with cloth moustache), so almost certainly old stock. Lumpy Money is a real reissue, and so is Carnegie Hall 1971. The titles that appeared on Rykodisc originally are also real reissues. I don't know how many others, but we're not seeing a comprehensive reissue program of Zappa Records and Vaulternative releases yet, as your list suggests.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/art/frank-zappa-frank-zappa-plays-the-music-of-frank-zappa/hnum/6352721

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IL Enema Bandit
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Post 2020-04-27 15:39   [Quote] 
Quote:
I don't know how many others, but we're not seeing a comprehensive reissue program of Zappa Records and Vaulternative releases yet, as your list suggests.


I was mostly working off this list put out by Zappa.com:

https://www.zappa.com/news/rare-frank-zappa-recordings-set-physical-release-and-streaming

At the very least, the cases for most of the reissues are different (the reissues have UMe's logo on them). I don't have every album on that list, but I have some of the 2016/2017 reissues. For example, the original issues of Road Tapes #1, MOFO (2 CD), and Dance Me This don't have UMe's logo on them; mine do.

I haven't been able to find any details about the reissues of Civilization Phaze III, FZ Plays the Music of FZ, and Everything Is Healing Nicely (or even if they were reissued). I'm curious if they were reissued with UMe's logo on them too, given their more expensive packaging.
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Dark Clothes
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Post 2020-04-27 17:26   [Quote] 
IL Enema Bandit wrote:
I haven't been able to find any details about the reissues of Civilization Phaze III, FZ Plays the Music of FZ, and Everything Is Healing Nicely (or even if they were reissued). I'm curious if they were reissued with UMe's logo on them too, given their more expensive packaging.

I have seen those in the the record shop Platekompaniet, Oslo. Pretty sure they're all old stock. CP3 comes in the white cardboard box from Barking Pumpkin, which it didn't have in Europe the first time around. It's listed with the actual cover illustration on their netsite, but for sale in the cardboard box that you see on eBay in the physical shops. Probably what you get when ordering online as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Civilization-Phaze-III-Frank-Zappa-2-CD-NEW-Barking-Pumpkin-OL-/382238060285

https://www.platekompaniet.no/cd/civilization-phase-iii/

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IL Enema Bandit
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Post 2020-05-21 17:13   [Quote] 
Alright so after doing some digging, I've been able to confirm that there were UMe reissues of the following:

73 2004 Joe's Domage (2017 UMe reissue)
75 2005 Joe's XMASage (2017 UMe reissue)
78 2006 MOFO (2 CD) (2017 UMe reissue)
84 2008 Joe's Menage (2017 UMe reissue)
85 2009 Lumpy Money (2016 UMe reissue)
89 2010 Hammersmith Odeon (2017 UMe reissue)
91 2011 Carnegie Hall (2020 UMe reissue)
92 2012 Road Tapes #1 (2016 UMe reissue)
96 2013 Road Tapes #2 (2016 UMe reissue)
97 2013 A Token of His Extreme (2017 UMe reissue)
98 2014 Joe's Camouflage (2017 UMe reissue)
99 2014 Roxy by Proxy (2017 UMe reissue)
100 2015 Dance Me This (2017 UMe reissue)

I have not been able to confirm if UMe reissued any of he following. As Dark Clothes pointed out, UMe may just be distributing old stock of them:

63 1994 Civilization Phaze III
66 1996 FZ Plays the Music of FZ
69 1999 Everything Is Healing Nicely
70 2002 FZ:OZ
72 2004 Joe's Corsage
76 2006 Imaginary Diseases
80 2007 Buffalo
81 2007 Dub Room Special
82 2007 Wazoo
83 2008 One Shot Deal
86 2009 Philly '76
87 2010 Greasy Love Songs
88 2010 Congress Shall Make No Law
90 2011 Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison

Can anyone here confirm if UMe actually reissued any of the above? I think it stands to reason that Joe's Corsage has been, but I don't know about the others.
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Dark Clothes
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Post 2020-05-21 18:04   [Quote] 
Feeding the monkies is an interesting case, as there are many reports on amazon about cds with only three tracks - a faulty reissue?

https://www.amazon.com/Feeding-Monkies-Maison-Frank-Zappa/dp/B01AXLPLNG

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Pittylabelle
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Post 2020-05-22 01:44   [Quote] 
When we were in Strasbourg in 2018, I was quite surprised to see two old stock original but still shrink-wrapped CD editions at FNAC:

"66 1996 FZ Plays the Music of FZ"
"86 2009 Philly '76"

"66 1996 FZ plays the Music of FZ" I also saw last year at MediaMarkt in Hengelo, the Netherlands.
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bjankins1
Joined: 2017-10-16
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Post 2020-05-22 08:19   [Quote] 
Well i can say that road tapes 2 is the same except the tracklisting doesnt include the timings for the preambles

There are some reports of defective copies of different reprints

Roxy and elsewhere 180G: some people have said they got apostrophe on one of the records

Dub Room Special Soundtrack CD: i bought this brand new from barnes and noble, only to see there was no CD in it...
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father-0blivion
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Post 2020-05-22 10:08   [Quote] 
bjankins1 wrote:
...Dub Room Special Soundtrack CD: i bought this brand new from barnes and noble, only to see there was no CD in it...

Now that's an unboxing video I would have watched...

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Pittylabelle
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Post 2020-05-22 20:21   [Quote] 
Somehow it happened that I got a copy of the EU UMe re-release of my original "Road Tapes Venue #1" US VAULTernative edition.

I can confirm that the two editions have the same tracklisting and timings on the CDs and the booklet. No defective CDs or different reprints. Apart from a naturally slightly different print they are quite identical - even the catalogue no. and the barcode are the same.

In any case, I can't imagine that the ZFT would make the effort in terms of sound quality, without announcing it as a remaster or retransfer or without printing this information on the CD cover or booklet, for example. If you don't attach importance to the "uniformity" of a CD collection then it doesn't seem to matter if I decide for the original edition or a UMe re-release.

But at the latest now with the Road Tapes series a Kind of "break" is inevitable, because I normally own the original release only. Venue #1 and #2 were originally published on VAULTernative and venue #3 was then already the first VAULTernaive/UMe only release.
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Pittylabelle
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Post 2020-05-22 22:54   [Quote] 
Dark Clothes wrote:
Feeding the monkies is an interesting case, as there are many reports on amazon about cds with only three tracks - a faulty reissue?

https://www.amazon.com/Feeding-Monkies-Maison-Frank-Zappa/dp/B01AXLPLNG

The same here obviously with the EU UMe version.
Just the said three tracks, even listed in the description on amazon.

https://www.amazon.de/Feeding-Monkies-at-Ma-Maison/dp/B005X5MY7O/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=feeding+zappa&qid=1590180563&sr=8-1

1. Feeding The Monkies At Ma Maison
2. Buffalo Voice
3. Secular Humanism

WTF? But I guess it's not faulty, it's intentional, like on Carnegie Hall. But in this case I think they simply forgot to change the track list on the cover. Interesting: The UMe re-release uses the front artwork of the vinyl.

BTW, what about the track list on the UMe cover of Carnegie Hall?
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