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Trout from Third Man pre-order
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brainpang
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Post 2018-04-02 16:32   [Quote] 
http://www.beefheart.com/tmr-vinyl-on-tmr/

Wonder what else the Bizarre relationship will produce? Or did they really mean B-Straight?
Perhaps it is just a way around any entanglements.
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Dark Clothes
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Post 2018-04-03 20:05   [Quote] 
This is sort of tempting, but what I really want is a pristine first pressing with insert. Can live without the extras and the vomit-colored vinyl.

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TPS
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Post 2018-04-03 21:40   [Quote] 
Drumbo had a little rant about this...
Quote:
I am doing my traditional rant about yet another release of TMR with absolutely no compensation to the musicians for their months of work on this project. Truthfully, I do not care whether fans buy it or not and I don't want to start a boycott crusade. What I do wish is that laws protected recording artists from having their images / recordings used without any compensation. Trout Mask Replica is Beefheart's most popular album, and the musicians worked on it about nine months in grueling conditions. I transcribed and arranged much of it myself, created many of my own drum parts, and wasn't even credited as being the drummer on the original release! I have seen it re-released countless times, but there's never the slightest offer of compensation to the recording artists who played the basic tracks. I was only twenty -- not even considered an "adult" -- in terms of drinking, etc. What is sad is how many artists this young sign contracts or dive in for the love of music and wind up getting screwed while others who had nothing to do with it and/or weren't even BORN when it was first released, are now exploiting the work for more and more profit. To me, not paying the artists for their contribution is no better than the exploitation of child labor. How many twenty-somethings do you know that have a concise knowledge of music business law and are qualified to make decisions about signing contracts? I was 18 when I signed with Buddah, and the only thing I knew about the contract was that the attorney told me it was "a good contract." I was later told that this contract was "boiler-plate" and totally in the record company's favor.

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brainpang
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Post 2018-04-04 21:32   [Quote] 
Dark Clothes wrote:
This is sort of tempting, but what I really want is a pristine first pressing with insert. Can live without the extras and the vomit-colored vinyl.


Dang, I forgot about the insert and it ain't on offer with the package. I guess it has something to do w/the publishing? The Words.
Masks seem to be the IN thing these days. That I find amusing. The other stuff? I've never carried a tote in my life, ain't gonna start now.
Still: it's cool it is happening, will buy it, but that doesn't mean I have to keep it in my possession forever.

The other factor leaning toward purchase is it being manufactured internally, at Third Man. That should mean Quality Control. Something lacking in the industry, as discussed here on z-teers ad infinitum.
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TPS
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Post 2018-04-07 11:54   [Quote] 
TPS wrote:
Drumbo had a little rant about this...
Quote:
I am doing my traditional rant about yet another release of TMR with absolutely no compensation to the musicians for their months of work on this project. Truthfully, I do not care whether fans buy it or not and I don't want to start a boycott crusade. What I do wish is that laws protected recording artists from having their images / recordings used without any compensation. Trout Mask Replica is Beefheart's most popular album, and the musicians worked on it about nine months in grueling conditions. I transcribed and arranged much of it myself, created many of my own drum parts, and wasn't even credited as being the drummer on the original release! I have seen it re-released countless times, but there's never the slightest offer of compensation to the recording artists who played the basic tracks. I was only twenty -- not even considered an "adult" -- in terms of drinking, etc. What is sad is how many artists this young sign contracts or dive in for the love of music and wind up getting screwed while others who had nothing to do with it and/or weren't even BORN when it was first released, are now exploiting the work for more and more profit. To me, not paying the artists for their contribution is no better than the exploitation of child labor. How many twenty-somethings do you know that have a concise knowledge of music business law and are qualified to make decisions about signing contracts? I was 18 when I signed with Buddah, and the only thing I knew about the contract was that the attorney told me it was "a good contract." I was later told that this contract was "boiler-plate" and totally in the record company's favor.

Today, Drumbo wrote
John French wrote:
Just had a conversation with Ahmet Zappa. I was pleasantly surprised at his open-mindedness concerning the TMR release. More later, but just wanted to say that he's not at all the monster some are making him out to be. Quite amicable, and very respectful guy. I may wind up working with him on later Beefheart material. ZFT may actually be in great hands.

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2018-04-13 12:27   [Quote] 
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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2018-04-13 12:35   [Quote] 
I am sad for John French and members of the magic band but surely they know how the music industry works.
Musicians make money per day on tour or per day in the studio unless they have negotiated points on sales. The record company pays all the costs of recording and owns the master tapes.
The producer usually has points and the writer gets royalaies and publishing income from sales, performance and radio/tv/streamimg and download.
Therefore DRUMBO, Rockette, Wingedeel etc are probably entitled to nothing having been paid for their work on the project back in 1968.
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peresmeshnik
Joined: 2013-11-17
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Post 2018-04-13 15:20   [Quote] 
From the ads it appears that there's a lot of investment in the packaging of the thing, i.e. how TRM *looks*. But is the audio going to be any different than on the 2013 remastered CD release? Or are they simply going to etch the 2013 digital master signal onto vomit-colored vinyl?

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TPS
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Post 2018-04-14 11:25   [Quote] 
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trout_Mask_Replica#Composition
Quote:
Van Vliet used a piano—an instrument he had never played before—as his main compositional tool. Since he had no experience with the piano and no conventional musical knowledge at all, he was able to experiment with few preconceived ideas of musical form or structure. Beefheart sat at the piano until he found a rhythmic or melodic pattern that he liked. John French then transcribed this pattern, typically only a measure or two long, into musical notation. After Beefheart was finished French would then piece these fragments together into compositions, reminiscent of the splicing together of disparate source material on Marker's tape. French decided which part would be played on which instrument and taught each player their part, although Van Vliet had final say over the ultimate shape of the product.

That sounds to me like John had a major part in the writing process. TMR would not have existed as we know it without him having been there.

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vivalapsych
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Post 2018-04-15 00:25   [Quote] 
peresmeshnik wrote:
From the ads it appears that there's a lot of investment in the packaging of the thing, i.e. how TRM *looks*. But is the audio going to be any different than on the 2013 remastered CD release? Or are they simply going to etch the 2013 digital master signal onto vomit-colored vinyl?


Exactly. That’s the only reason I would buy it, that is if it truly was a substantialy different remaster than the ZFT version . And while colored vinyl looks kinda neat, and fun to show off at parties, I find it a little off putting when it’s applied to “classic” albums. Though I’d certainly happily accept this package as a gift, I really have no use for it.

I guess I’m thankful it doesn’t contain any unreleased material so I can ignore it easily. Hopefully one day we'll get the “making-of” treatment of Trout one of these days. I will buy that certainly, but will pass on this
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peresmeshnik
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Post 2018-04-15 01:48   [Quote] 
vivalapsych wrote:
Hopefully one day we'll get the “making-of” treatment of Trout one of these days. I will buy that certainly, but will pass on this


My thoughts exactly, and what I really find totally incomprehensible is that we have one of the chief architects of TMR, John French, still alive and active and more than willing (I'm sure) to participate in a truly thorough "deluxe" release of TRM, with commentary, recollections, explanations, etc. etc. And --- most importantly --- who could offer the world an alternate mix of TRM which, as he has already claimed, would be closer to what he, for one, had in mind during the recording sessions. Would it really be so hard to invite John to produce his own mix, based on a mere *copy* of the digital master, and offer it *alongside* the 2013 mix (if that's forever to be the latest/definitive version from Zappa records), even if only as a download? It just kills me that ZFT is letting such an historic opportunity slip away.

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SpacemanJr
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Post 2018-04-15 02:43   [Quote] 
TPS wrote:
Today, Drumbo wrote
John French wrote:
Just had a conversation with Ahmet Zappa. I was pleasantly surprised at his open-mindedness concerning the TMR release. More later, but just wanted to say that he's not at all the monster some are making him out to be. Quite amicable, and very respectful guy. I may wind up working with him on later Beefheart material. ZFT may actually be in great hands.

I'm late on this, but this is truly a surprising and excellent thing to read.
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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2018-04-15 09:09   [Quote] 
TPS wrote:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trout_Mask_Replica#Composition
Quote:
Van Vliet used a piano—an instrument he had never played before—as his main compositional tool. Since he had no experience with the piano and no conventional musical knowledge at all, he was able to experiment with few preconceived ideas of musical form or structure. Beefheart sat at the piano until he found a rhythmic or melodic pattern that he liked. John French then transcribed this pattern, typically only a measure or two long, into musical notation. After Beefheart was finished French would then piece these fragments together into compositions, reminiscent of the splicing together of disparate source material on Marker's tape. French decided which part would be played on which instrument and taught each player their part, although Van Vliet had final say over the ultimate shape of the product.

That sounds to me like John had a major part in the writing process. TMR would not have existed as we know it without him having been there.

It depends how u look at it The Captain was clearly the creative force perhaps French should have got an arrangement fee. On the latter Beefheart albums the music was just as interesting but different arrangers such S Gary Lucas were used. The other point I would make is that without Thr Captain John French has not pruduced a single piece of music of any note and has been making a living with his tribute Msgic Band. When I met Don back in the eighties he was living in a trailer in the Mohave desert so I don’t think he made much dough either
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Dark Clothes
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Post 2018-04-16 17:31   [Quote] 
vivalapsych wrote:
peresmeshnik wrote:
From the ads it appears that there's a lot of investment in the packaging of the thing, i.e. how TRM *looks*. But is the audio going to be any different than on the 2013 remastered CD release? Or are they simply going to etch the 2013 digital master signal onto vomit-colored vinyl?


Exactly. That’s the only reason I would buy it, that is if it truly was a substantialy different remaster than the ZFT version . And while colored vinyl looks kinda neat, and fun to show off at parties, I find it a little off putting when it’s applied to “classic” albums. Though I’d certainly happily accept this package as a gift, I really have no use for it.

I guess I’m thankful it doesn’t contain any unreleased material so I can ignore it easily. Hopefully one day we'll get the “making-of” treatment of Trout one of these days. I will buy that certainly, but will pass on this


Lots of great TMR instrumental takes on Grow Fins.

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Dark Clothes
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Post 2018-04-17 11:43   [Quote] 

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