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Greggery Peccary's romance
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Galeans
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Post 2017-02-16 18:49   [Quote] 
A message for the masochists, completists, hardcore fans and other perverts: I've just realized the final guitar chord that appears on the "Lather" version of "Greggery Peccary" (20:52) can be found in "Advance Romance" from "Philly '76" (11:41).

cheers

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pbuzby
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Post 2017-02-18 00:15   [Quote] 
Just listened and yes, it does seem that FZ used that concert tape for that bit on Läther (around 15 years before he finally released a full song from the show). Good find.
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Overnitefreak
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Post 2017-02-18 02:10   [Quote] 
These edits FZ used to do boggle the mind. Why would he have done this? I suppose "why not?" would have been the reply.
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rubbershirt
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Post 2017-02-18 04:58   [Quote] 
Galeans wrote:
A message for the masochists, completists, hardcore fans and other perverts: I've just realized the final guitar chord that appears on the "Lather" version of "Greggery Peccary" (20:52) can be found in "Advance Romance" from "Philly '76" (11:41).

cheers


When this site is good, it's great.
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oofers
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Post 2017-02-18 16:40   [Quote] 
Overnitefreak wrote:
These edits FZ used to do boggle the mind. Why would he have done this? I suppose "why not?" would have been the reply.


I also can't help but wonder -- did he even entertain the notion that 40 years into the future, astute-eared fans would discover such an edit? Did he just enjoy it as a piece of CC that only he could appreciate? Sure, it was probably purely a pragmatic decision, but then again, all that snippet is a chorded slide down the neck -- wouldn't that be pretty easy to punch in and record? Makes you realize that he spent a lot of time going through old tapes, just looking for bits to assemble. The palette of possibilities must have served as inspiration.

Great find.
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zazoo
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Post 2017-02-18 17:39   [Quote] 
Overnitefreak wrote:
These edits FZ used to do boggle the mind. Why would he have done this? I suppose "why not?" would have been the reply.


"Art is never finished, only abandoned"
- Leonardo da Vinci
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pbuzby
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Post 2017-02-18 18:59   [Quote] 
oofers wrote:
Sure, it was probably purely a pragmatic decision, but then again, all that snippet is a chorded slide down the neck -- wouldn't that be pretty easy to punch in and record?


I guess it was easier to find that bit in an existing tape than to set up a session and hire an engineer to record his guitar.

BTW, one of those other "grout" bits from Läther includes a second or two of Jaco Pastorius style fretless bass licks that I think is from one of O'Hearn's solos in the ZINY shows.
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yetanother
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Post 2017-02-18 19:42   [Quote] 
oofers wrote:
I also can't help but wonder -- did he even entertain the notion that 40 years into the future, astute-eared fans would discover such an edit? Did he just enjoy it as a piece of CC that only he could appreciate? Sure, it was probably purely a pragmatic decision, but then again, all that snippet is a chorded slide down the neck -- wouldn't that be pretty easy to punch in and record? Makes you realize that he spent a lot of time going through old tapes, just looking for bits to assemble. The palette of possibilities must have served as inspiration.

Probably not, because he never entertained the notion of officially releasing that show.

But I think you're missing the point. He didn't use that snippet because he thought he needed "a chorded slide down the neck" to finish that piece, he used it because he had it at hand and felt like using it. I think such collages are better approached from a "musique concrète" standpoint than from a traditional arranger's one - a sound is much more than a technical description, it has a particular identity, a life of its own. FZ the arranger might simply have left it out - as he did, since that chord is not part of the original arrangement - but FZ the tape assembler working on that particular project obviously had an entirely different view on the piece.

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oofers
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Post 2017-02-19 20:47   [Quote] 
yetanother wrote:
Probably not, because he never entertained the notion of officially releasing that show.


Good point, that Philly 76 wasn't out while he was alive. In fact, I just pre-ordered Philly 76 through amazon. I missed it the first time around and... don't cha hate when third-party sellers jack up the price of stuff that is out of print? Until the re-release was recently announced, a used copy of Philly 76 was around $60. Ever since seeing the all-too-brief clip on the Classic Albums DVD, I've always wanted to hear a great-sounding version of the band with Bianca, and the only SBD on the tracker (Nov. 6) is rated B+, so I avoided it. Needless to say, I plan to grab as much as I can with this latest batch of releases.

But I digress.... Here's a bigger, somewhat relevant question -- it even relates to some of the opinions held here that if something was released after 1993, it exists counter to FZ's intentions.

And that is: Can we really assume that if FZ didn't release something during his lifetime that he had no intentions of ever releasing it?

Given the size of the vault, and his prematurely shortened life, I would think not. In the context of this thread, yes, Philly 76 was never released in his lifetime, but we can't infer he never intended to, can we? Maybe he listened back to it and thought, "Yeah, that's not good enough for release", but maybe he also thought "Great stuff! But I'm working on so much other stuff presently.... I'll get back around to this one."

Of the latter hypothetical scenario, surely there's plenty of stuff like that in the vault, right? He just ran out of time. We only know for sure about the stuff he spoke of near the end, like CP III, but who knows what he had on his mental "to-do" list when he died?
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father-0blivion
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Post 2017-02-19 21:24   [Quote] 
oofers wrote:
...I've always wanted to hear a great-sounding version of the band with Bianca, and the only SBD on the tracker (Nov. 6) is rated B+, so I avoided it.

If you're restricting yourself to SBD's rated A(-) and above you're missing out on some great stuff from that tour.... there are some great audio captures... Boston and Pawtucket to mention two... The Felt Forums aren't bad either.

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pbuzby
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Post 2017-02-19 22:50   [Quote] 
In the Menn/Groening interview shortly before FZ died, it sounded like FZ was more or less done with archival live releases with the conclusion of the YCDTOSA series. If he had lived longer and needed to keep more products coming out to support his family and business, perhaps he would have changed his mind.
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Galeans
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Post 2017-02-20 00:57   [Quote] 
My pet theory is that FZ had extracted the "Advance Romance" solo for a possible release somewhere and ended up using only the final segment. There are no solos from Philly in the SUNPYG serie but there is one from London with the (almost) same line-up, so he was considering this period. Since the Philadelphia show was recorded on a 16-track, I suppose Zappa was probably looking for something to do with it.

cheers

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yetanother
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Post 2017-02-20 01:49   [Quote] 
oofers wrote:
Can we really assume that if FZ didn't release something during his lifetime that he had no intentions of ever releasing it?

That is not something I would care to speculate on. But if you listen closely to Philly '76, both performance- and recording quality-wise, I think the answer in this case is pretty obvious.

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Galeans
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Post 2017-02-20 01:59   [Quote] 
yetanother wrote:
But if you listen closely to Philly '76, both performance- and recording quality-wise, I think the answer in this case is pretty obvious.


I did and I freaking love both Very Happy

cheers

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yetanother
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Post 2017-02-20 02:19   [Quote] 
Galeans wrote:
yetanother wrote:
But if you listen closely to Philly '76, both performance- and recording quality-wise, I think the answer in this case is pretty obvious.


I did and I freaking love both Very Happy

We're all entitled to our opinions, but we know FZ had different standards Wink (BTW, I'm not a fan of the sound quality on that album, but I do appreciate the performance, despite its flaws)

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