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1967 12 03 Ann Arbor MI 23.32 Stage (Musigny23-WIU2B-LudzNL-fl-Galeans)
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oofers
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Post 2016-06-22 13:25   [Quote] 
What strikes me most about this is the pay! 500 1967 dollars! For one musician! Am I wrong to consider the MOI as a still nascent band at this point? ("If we'd all been living in California...."). I honestly would've thought the whole band would split $500 at that time.

Makes me feel like a bum for how much I appreciate even getting $200 per gig nowadays.

uncle max wrote:
I found this website:
https://sites.google.com/site/pittsburghmusichistory/pittsburgh-music-story/instrumentalists/art-tripp

A paragraph is: Meeting Frank Zappa

In New York City Tripp's wife took a job as a state welfare case worker. There she met Patrica Kunk wife of Frank Zappa's recording engineer Richard Kunc. The two couples got together for dinner and drinks. Art talked about his experience playing with John Cage and the Cincinnati Symphony. He told Kunc if you need someone to play percussion parts let me know I could use the work.

Richard Kunc told Frank Zappa that he had met a percussionist with the background and experience that Zappa was looking for. Two weeks after the Tripp's dinner with the Kuncs Art was invited to meet Frank and play for him at Apostolic Studio in New York’s Greenwich Village. Zappa asked him to sit behind the drum kit and play. Tripp let loose whaling on the drums for a few minutes. Zappa's mouth was wide open and he told Tripp "Man you're a monster". Later Zappa asked "Are you doing anything this weekend. We have a couple of gigs this weekend. We can pay you about $500." Tripp agreed to work with Zappa's band that weekend. At age 23 Art Tripp became one of the members of Zappa's Mothers of Invention.

December 3rd, 1967 was a Sunday

In the same webpage then you also read:

In November of 1967 Tripp made his first studio recordings with the Mothers on the album "Ruben & The Jets".

which may support Art playing in Ann Arbor.

The above may be not precise.
In particular, I have the feeling the "weekend event" happens first, then the studio recording, so that "weekend" couldn't have been Ann Arbor.
However, if really Art started studio recordings in November, it may fit the Ann Arbor gig.

Art was 23 since September 1967.

What do you think ?
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Jim Lahey
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Post 2016-06-22 22:20   [Quote] 
That's interesting, that Artie would be paid $500 for the weekend gigs when the rest of the band was probably on the $200/week salary. I wonder when his pay cut took effect, haha.
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cosmikd
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Post 2016-06-23 10:43   [Quote] 
Thank you for the upgrade!
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Ed Organmax
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Post 2016-06-23 12:57   [Quote] 
If I'm not mistaken, JCB's poverty bit on UM was recorded late 1967, that was before Frank and Mothers moved back to California. Also, I guess some gigs did pay a lot of money and I guess Artie's weekend debut may have been a couple of better paying engagements.
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AllanZappa
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Post 2016-06-24 10:25   [Quote] 
Thanks for sharing this Lovely piece.

Yer Pal Al
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vivazappa
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Post 2016-06-27 19:09   [Quote] 
Merci the real MOI !!
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drdork
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Post 2016-06-28 05:24   [Quote] 
Ed Organmax wrote:
There's just two gigs in 1968 before the 24 Feb gig. So either Billy Mundi still did these two commitments or the Mothers played with JCB as the sole drummer.

Al Fresco wrote:
I donīt think Billy Mundi was in the band in 1968, so my bet itīs that JCB was the only drummer in these two gigs.

JCB stated (For Mother's Sake, p. 95) that "the first gig that I played back as the only drummer" was in Providence with Charles Lloyd.

Maybe he was wrong about the location, as Charles Lloyd shared the bill at 68/02/18 Fall River. Or maybe there was a gig in Providence that's not in the giglist, possibly on 68/02/17. Either way, that's only a week before Art Tripp joined.

That would also suggest that Billy Mundi was still in the band for 68/01/28 Toronto.

A review of the Toronto gig in the Daily Star includes a list of some of the instruments played. It doesn't state that there were two drumsets, but it does mention electric trumpet, vibraharp, and tympani. JCB wouldn't have had a chance to play those instruments if Billy was already gone and he was the only drummer.

So, unless there were some unlisted gigs between Toronto and Providence/Fall River, I think 68/01/28 Toronto was Billy's last gig.
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old_zircon
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Post 2016-06-28 09:24   [Quote] 
drdork wrote:
JCB stated (For Mother's Sake, p. 95) that "the first gig that I played back as the only drummer" was in Providence with Charles Lloyd.

Maybe he was wrong about the location, as Charles Lloyd shared the bill at 68/02/18 Fall River. Or maybe there was a gig in Providence that's not in the giglist, possibly on 68/02/17. Either way, that's only a week before Art Tripp joined.

That would also suggest that Billy Mundi was still in the band for 68/01/28 Toronto.

A review of the Toronto gig in the Daily Star includes a list of some of the instruments played. It doesn't state that there were two drumsets, but it does mention electric trumpet, vibraharp, and tympani. JCB wouldn't have had a chance to play those instruments if Billy was already gone and he was the only drummer.

So, unless there were some unlisted gigs between Toronto and Providence/Fall River, I think 68/01/28 Toronto was Billy's last gig.


Right after that, JCB also says, "I hadn't been playing drums that much so I had to learn a whole bunch of things that I hadn't been playing drums on," so maybe he barely played drums in Toronto.

Also, looking at a map, I see Fall River is located less than 30 km. from Providence.
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jazzlady
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Post 2016-06-28 10:41   [Quote] 
Thanks for the upgrade!

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Jazzlady

"Music is the best." - FZ
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Ed Organmax
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Post 2016-06-28 16:05   [Quote] 
What? JCB played vibes too? Interesting.
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drdork
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Post 2016-06-28 17:58   [Quote] 
Ed Organmax wrote:
JCB played vibes too?

In that paragraph, he just says "percussion". So he may just be referring to things like timpani and tambourine. But FZ owned vibes and the review mentions them, so someone must have played them. I suppose it could have been FZ himself. But schlepping them all the way to Toronto makes more sense if they can be played at the same time as guitar and drums.
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Al Fresco
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Post 2016-06-28 18:02   [Quote] 
drdork wrote:
Ed Organmax wrote:
There's just two gigs in 1968 before the 24 Feb gig. So either Billy Mundi still did these two commitments or the Mothers played with JCB as the sole drummer.

Al Fresco wrote:
I donīt think Billy Mundi was in the band in 1968, so my bet itīs that JCB was the only drummer in these two gigs.

JCB stated (For Mother's Sake, p. 95) that "the first gig that I played back as the only drummer" was in Providence with Charles Lloyd.

Maybe he was wrong about the location, as Charles Lloyd shared the bill at 68/02/18 Fall River. Or maybe there was a gig in Providence that's not in the giglist, possibly on 68/02/17. Either way, that's only a week before Art Tripp joined.

That would also suggest that Billy Mundi was still in the band for 68/01/28 Toronto.

A review of the Toronto gig in the Daily Star includes a list of some of the instruments played. It doesn't state that there were two drumsets, but it does mention electric trumpet, vibraharp, and tympani. JCB wouldn't have had a chance to play those instruments if Billy was already gone and he was the only drummer.

So, unless there were some unlisted gigs between Toronto and Providence/Fall River, I think 68/01/28 Toronto was Billy's last gig.


I found out a new review of the gig in Toronto, see attached, but I think that to me itīs not definitive to dispel doubts. Besides 10 shabby Mothers on stage...( I believe the reviewer is adding more roadies than musicians... and at least two drum sets would be noticiable.

For the other side:

http://www.rhinoceros-group.com/rhino2.htm

"Mundi became an integral part of The Mothers' line-up and is featured on the classic albums, 'Absolutely Free' and 'We're Only In It For The Money'. Eventually however, he became disillusioned by the band's financial plight and, living in dreadful conditions in New York's Chelsea Hotel, was ready to jump ship by December 1967. As Mundi recalls: "I was on a short break from the Mothers and went to New York to speak to Jac Holzman. He wanted me to check out a group of musicians that Elektra had corralled together to do something... I told him I had a few more dates to do and would fly out to LA and see. I did and I stayed. I began rehearsing and joined."

If we look at Zappa gig list in late December 1967:
http://members.shaw.ca/fz-pomd/giglist/1967.html

I think that short break that Billy mentions above could be on Jan. 24-25 after the shows in Town Hall-NYC and those to come at The Trauma-Philly Dec. 26-31; and then Billy flew to LA.
In January 1968 FZ would be recording Uncle Meat & themes of Ruben & The Jets, and the next show would be almost a month later: on jan. 28, ī68 Toronto.


Last edited by Al Fresco on 2016-06-28 18:11; edited 1 time in total
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Al Fresco
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Post 2016-06-28 18:04   [Quote] 
btw: Find the ad for the gig in Toronto - U.C. Festival
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drdork
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Post 2016-06-28 19:58   [Quote] 
Al Fresco wrote:
I found out a new review of the gig in Toronto, see attached, but I think that to me itīs not definitive to dispel doubts.

Thanks. Notice that this review, like the other one, mentions both kettle drums and trumpet (though not vibes). Between those and singing, JCB had plenty to do, even if he didn't play drumset at all. (And think of how much time Ray Collins used to spend not singing during instrumental sections of shows.) Anyway, since both reviews refer to "drums" rather than "drumset/drumsets", we don't know how many drumsets there were on stage.

Al Fresco wrote:
As Mundi recalls: "I was on a short break from the Mothers and went to New York to speak to Jac Holzman. He wanted me to check out a group of musicians that Elektra had corralled together to do something... I told him I had a few more dates to do and would fly out to LA and see. I did and I stayed. I began rehearsing and joined."

If we look at Zappa gig list in late December 1967:
http://members.shaw.ca/fz-pomd/giglist/1967.html

I think that short break that Billy mentions above could be on [Dec.] 24-25 after the shows in Town Hall-NYC and those to come at The Trauma-Philly Dec. 26-31; and then Billy flew to LA.

But if he had been performing at the Town Hall, how come he "went to New York"? Wouldn't he have already been there?

Anyway, it's not clear to me from that quotation that Billy didn't play his "few more dates" with the MOI. Maybe 68/01/28 Toronto was the last of those gigs that he felt obliged to play.
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Al Fresco
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Post 2016-06-28 21:26   [Quote] 
drdork wrote:
Al Fresco wrote:
I found out a new review of the gig in Toronto, see attached, but I think that to me itīs not definitive to dispel doubts.

Thanks. Notice that this review, like the other one, mentions both kettle drums and trumpet (though not vibes). Between those and singing, JCB had plenty to do, even if he didn't play drumset at all. (And think of how much time Ray Collins used to spend not singing during instrumental sections of shows.) Anyway, since both reviews refer to "drums" rather than "drumset/drumsets", we don't know how many drumsets there were on stage.

Al Fresco wrote:
As Mundi recalls: "I was on a short break from the Mothers and went to New York to speak to Jac Holzman. He wanted me to check out a group of musicians that Elektra had corralled together to do something... I told him I had a few more dates to do and would fly out to LA and see. I did and I stayed. I began rehearsing and joined."

If we look at Zappa gig list in late December 1967:
http://members.shaw.ca/fz-pomd/giglist/1967.html

I think that short break that Billy mentions above could be on [Dec.] 24-25 after the shows in Town Hall-NYC and those to come at The Trauma-Philly Dec. 26-31; and then Billy flew to LA.

But if he had been performing at the Town Hall, how come he "went to New York"? Wouldn't he have already been there?

Anyway, it's not clear to me from that quotation that Billy didn't play his "few more dates" with the MOI. Maybe 68/01/28 Toronto was the last of those gigs that he felt obliged to play.


Billy mentions " I was on a short break"...it doesnīt match with 28 days later from his last gig on Dec. 31, ī67...and supposedly FZ was recording in this period of time...and not with Billy Mundi Question if he was still in the band...
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