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1970 05 15 Los Angeles CA 98.32 Aud 2nd (davmar77-av-BB-Pigman-flambay-JWB) ZTLS#630 part 2
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father-0blivion
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Post 2015-09-09 08:54   [Quote] 
bleachboy wrote:
Anyone knows why Ray Collins is heard saying "It's bullshit, it's still bullshit" during the drum solo and at the very end of the show? Could he be referring to the music...?

I've never heard anyone refer to music as bullshit.... lyrics maybe, but not music. It's just not a phrase anyone would use to descibe anything but some sort of words.

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bleachboy
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Post 2015-09-09 10:53   [Quote] 
That's why I find it weird! We know that the weirdness of the music and the lyrics was one of the reasons Collins quit and rejoined the group so often. What I don't understand is why diss the music (and the lyrics) on stage in front of an audience...? The fact is that he says this in the middle of an instrumental section...Since I'm listening to this show daily since the beginning of last weekend 'cause I like it so much, it makes me wonder!! Why saying " still bullshit"? As in "it was bullshit before I left and it's still bullshit now that I'm back?"

To me, all the attemps Zappa did to concile orchestral music and rock band represent his best works, where most of the other artists have failed to do so!

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Last edited by bleachboy on 2015-09-09 11:54; edited 1 time in total
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Galeans
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Post 2015-09-09 11:31   [Quote] 
I think it's rather a reference to something that has happened, like a "secret word" or something similar...

cheers

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father-0blivion
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Post 2015-09-09 11:46   [Quote] 
It's certainly IS disappointing if he is describing the music we hear here as bullshit.... disbelief

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(FZ: ''It Just Might Be A One-Shot Deal'')

'' 'n pretty soon, there won't be no street, for dummies to jog on, or doggies to dog on, religious fanatics, can make it be all gone...''
(FZ: ''Dumb All Over'')
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bleachboy
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Post 2015-09-09 11:57   [Quote] 
Galeans wrote:
I think it's rather a reference to something that has happened, like a "secret word" or something similar...

cheers
That is most likely indeed, since Collins was also known for his most peculiar sense of humor!

EDIT: probably a reference to the "Some Bullshit" Medley (My Boyfriend's Back etc...) performed at the beginning of the show?

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pbuzby
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Post 2015-09-09 15:03   [Quote] 
If I recall right the November 6 1970 show is the one where FZ suggests the audience chant "bullshit" because they seem unsatisfied with the material. Maybe some conceptual continuity there.
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bleachboy
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Post 2015-09-09 17:07   [Quote] 
"We're now going to play you some bullshit" FZ sez before My Boyfriend's Back during one of the Central Park 1968' shows. The thing is, it would have made sense if Ray had said "bullshit" before or during My Boyfriend's Back, but there he says it more than a hour later, after some real non-bullshit pieces of contemporary music...

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jacque
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Post 2016-02-20 20:00   [Quote] 
Extremely excited for the 200 motels section, cheers!
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JWB
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Post 2016-02-20 20:11   [Quote] 
bleachboy wrote:
That's why I find it weird! We know that the weirdness of the music and the lyrics was one of the reasons Collins quit and rejoined the group so often. What I don't understand is why diss the music (and the lyrics) on stage in front of an audience...? The fact is that he says this in the middle of an instrumental section...Since I'm listening to this show daily since the beginning of last weekend 'cause I like it so much, it makes me wonder!! Why saying " still bullshit"? As in "it was bullshit before I left and it's still bullshit now that I'm back?"


father-0blivion wrote:
It's certainly IS disappointing if he is describing the music we hear here as bullshit.... disbelief


That is absolutely what he is saying. Why do you guys find this surprising? Collins HATED Zappa's music and experimental approach to live performance. That is why he was constantly in and out of the group. This show (5/15/70) was his final performance with Zappa, after being talked into returning yet again. That comment was likely his final "kiss off" to Frank.
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bleachboy
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Post 2016-04-23 12:13   [Quote] 
Did George Duke only play during the orchestral parts?

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pbuzby
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Post 2016-04-23 13:44   [Quote] 
bleachboy wrote:
Did George Duke only play during the orchestral parts?


Trying to remember, is there a reason to think George Duke played in this show?
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Overnitefreak
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Post 2016-04-23 16:10   [Quote] 
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Trying to remember, is there a reason to think George Duke played in this show?


I seem to remember reading somewhere that Don Preston came down with the flu or something and couldn't play.
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bleachboy
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Post 2016-04-24 00:26   [Quote] 
pbuzby wrote:
bleachboy wrote:
Did George Duke only play during the orchestral parts?


Trying to remember, is there a reason to think George Duke played in this show?
He actually said so! In the "Freak Jazz Movie Madness & Another Mothers" doc. I don't think Don's "throwing up backstage" has anything to do with it, since at the beginning of the recording Don is pretty much expected to come on to the stage and play. I also seem to hear the parts he played on the previous MOI Reunion recordings on this one too after a while. So Duke maybe was playing with the orchestra only?

In the Zappa forum, I've come across this quote by BrownMoses "All---

George Duke just confirmed it in an email to me----he played at the Pauley Pavilion concert with Zappa and Zubin Mehta. Looks like some web sites need to give Mr. Duke his due.

"I'M ON -----DUTY!"
"

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drdork
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Post 2016-04-24 02:49   [Quote] 
FZ announced in an interview conducted before the concert that George would be playing. From Jazz & Pop (August 1970):

Quote:
I've got one more extra added attraction do you know George Duke? He's going to be playing the celeste and electric piano part with the orchestra. I like his playing very much.
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Post 2016-10-07 12:00   [Quote] 
ta Very Happy
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