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1978 10 13 (E) Passaic NJ SBD samples (mp4, boguspomp, doctorzap), plus mp3 (WP-Greg Z)
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flambay
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Post 2013-12-19 11:10   [Quote] 
Frank Zappa
Capitol Theatre
Passaic, NJ
1978 10 13

Early Show


~~ Samples from SBD source (3 versions) ~~

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=290412#290412

Pittylabelle wrote:
Thanks for this, team!

BTW, what about the SBD-Puck-Version of the Early show?

It was seeded in Oct. 2012 by boguspomp as a DVD version only:
http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=25361

Would be nice to have it in FZ Shows too.

Thanks!

JWB wrote:
Yes! A fixed up early show would be awesome as well, though the one in the shoebox is already pretty good.

We have three Shoebox versions to pick from which we could prepare an FZshows version of the Early show (SBD source):

Samples from The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing (end of song) upped here for comparison.
(Note that skip in first "it's your ass that's on the line", the boguspomp sample comes with a micro-patch, included from the AUD source)

1) original mp4 files - green line in FA
2) boguspomp flac mono - magenta line in FA
3) doctorzap flac mono with 'fixeable' phase offset - orange line
Do we pick the original mp4 files (despite that strange dip in the 21 kHz area),
or either one of the flac versions (boguspomp or doctorzap) ?

EDIT:
I have now added a sample from a fourth version,
for comparison against the other three,
i.e. from the original 320kbps mp3 WP upload, mentioned and contributed by Greg Z, see his post hereunder.
( - dark/blue line in FA)

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Greg Z
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Post 2013-12-19 14:37   [Quote] 
My vote is for none of the above.
For the early show Mr. Puck has provided us with a
separate audio stream of MP3 320kbps 44.1kHz.
Just like the Upper Darby shows.
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flambay
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Post 2013-12-19 15:20   [Quote] 
Greg Z wrote:
My vote is for none of the above.
For the early show Mr. Puck has provided us with a
separate audio stream of MP3 320kbps 44.1kHz.
Just like the Upper Darby shows.

Thanks Greg,

I have now included with this torrent an additional sample,
from this MP3 320kbps version.

So, if we have a consensus here,
we should end up having another "LOSSY BUT GLOSSY" version up in FZ Shows,
as with the Upper Darby shows.

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JWB
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Post 2013-12-19 19:20   [Quote] 
Three of the samples sound the same and I assume all three are "raw". Going by the spectrals and graphs, the Puck MP3 has the most cutoff in the spectral - at 20k. The MP4 extends beyond that to 22k, but boguspomp's version goes all the way. I don't know what would cause this or if this has any relevance in the argument.
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TOGFIADO
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Post 2013-12-19 21:33   [Quote] 
Just came back to give my two-pennyworth but then saw the post about the mp3 version. Just like to say that the order of samples in the download being the reverse of the order in the FA analysis threw me for a bit. The patch in the bpomp was a big clue though! For what it's worth, I thought the DrZap version to be the best, though it was very close with the bogp. Both preferable to the mp4. Haven't heard the mp3 yet (obviously) but will d/l now.

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JWB
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Post 2013-12-19 21:40   [Quote] 
The doctorzap version is clearly tweaked/remastered and I don't think it should enter into the decision making here.
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TOGFIADO
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Post 2013-12-19 21:50   [Quote] 
The levels are a little higher. The FA follows the same curve as bpomp to a very close degree. So I have to ask where is this "clear" tweaking/remastering?

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JWB
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Post 2013-12-19 22:11   [Quote] 
TOGFIADO wrote:
The levels are a little higher. The FA follows the same curve as bpomp to a very close degree. So I have to ask where is this "clear" tweaking/remastering?


Listen closer to the samples. In addition to the different audio level, it's much brighter than the other three.
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Pittylabelle
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Post 2013-12-19 22:16   [Quote] 
The fourth MP3 Puck version has the strange cutoff at 20 k.

Since the doctorzap and boguspomp versions are generated from the original MP4,
I would simply vote for the original MP4 - just from a pragmatically point of view.
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JWB
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Post 2013-12-19 22:29   [Quote] 
Pittylabelle wrote:
The fourth MP3 Puck version has the strange cutoff at 20 k.

Since the doctorzap and boguspomp versions are generated from the original MP4,
I would simply vote for the original MP4 - just from a pragmatically point of view.


I think that's a fine choice.
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TOGFIADO
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Post 2013-12-20 00:06   [Quote] 
JWB wrote:
TOGFIADO wrote:
The levels are a little higher. The FA follows the same curve as bpomp to a very close degree. So I have to ask where is this "clear" tweaking/remastering?


Listen closer to the samples. In addition to the different audio level, it's much brighter than the other three.

I have listened very closely, and I agree it seems a little brighter. Surely this is just down to the fact that it's a bit 'louder' when comparing to the other samples. Otherwise it would show up in the FA.
Whatever, they're all decent enough and the eventual downloader will have plenty of scope to remaster to their particular taste.

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Post 2013-12-20 00:21   [Quote] 
TOGFIADO wrote:

I have listened very closely, and I agree it seems a little brighter. Surely this is just down to the fact that it's a bit 'louder' when comparing to the other samples. Otherwise it would show up in the FA.


Whatever, dude. Three of the samples are practically identical. One is completely different in terms of levels and EQ. Considering the sources, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going on.
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Greg Z
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Post 2013-12-20 02:05   [Quote] 
JWB wrote:
Pittylabelle wrote:
The fourth MP3 Puck version has the strange cutoff at 20 k.

Since the doctorzap and boguspomp versions are generated from the original MP4,
I would simply vote for the original MP4 - just from a pragmatically point of view.


I think that's a fine choice.


I'm not quite sure why you would want to use the MP4's.
The MP3's are the original files from Mr. Pucks as well and use a superior
format at a better bitrate than the original aac audio embedded
in the MP4's. The MP4 audio also needs to be resampled from
48 to 44.1 KHz and the MP3's do not.
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JWB
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Post 2013-12-20 02:08   [Quote] 
But the MP4's have more information in the upper frequencies. Wouldn't this make them better? (Don't know...just asking.)
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Post 2013-12-20 02:35   [Quote] 
I agree with the three out of four theory, but it's the mp4/3 to my ears that's inferior. BUT they (my ears that is) have just turned 58 and so are not as reliable as they once were. However, I smell a whiff of historical differences here, ninja, and in the best traditions of British Fair Play (and because I was never part of whatever went on back then) I am trying to be totally neutral and honest in my opinion. So, JWB, I ask once again, where is your evidence? Yes, I hear more high end, but I also hear more of all frequencies because it's overall LOUDER. The analysis doesn't lie.
Please don't call me dude again. It's Dud or nothing (one for the British over 50s).
Ultimately, the worst sounding source is still better than 95% or more of the shows here, so lets thank all those involved and move forward together, in unity and happiness in this festive season of goodwill. Ho ho ho!
BTW Rocket science is fairly basic trigonometry . If you want to emphasise difficulty I would suggest including "quantum" as in Q theory, Q physics, Q anything Very Happy. Now: correct me if I'm wrong, since I wasn't involved "back then", but as I understand it, the main complaint against 'Ninja' 'back then' was overuse of NR. In the recent past Ray's done magnificent work with the community-funded DR-1, with access to the kind of cassette masters most Zappateers probably wish they'd had a part in creating. Now you're suggesting he's doing exactly the opposite, sonically. Does that sound logical or reasonable? At this point I don't give a flying fuck which version is used as they're all much better than most of the sources we have for most of the shows on the tracker. So lets be happy with that, and until anyone cares to PM me with compelling evidence to the contrary let's move forward and put past mistakes behind us. I'm sure FZ said something along similar lines.

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