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Scott Thunes mystery tape aka chalk pie 3rd gen (Robsam doctorzap)
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doctorzap
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Post 2011-09-14 08:01   [Quote] 
Lineage: Maxell XLII-S 3rd GEN > Nakamichi DR-1 > Realtek HDAudio pentium i7 > Soundforge 10 Pro Highest quality setting Izotope 64 bit src downsampling / MBIT+dither> TLH

1982 - "Chalk Pie" (?)

70 min, A+

Drowning Witch
Envelopes
Teenage Prostitute (SATLTSADW versions, with some differences)
The Dangerous Kitchen (1980 10 16 Austin, diff. mix than on TMFU)
Chalk Pie (1981 12 07 Salt Lake City, same as on G)
We're Turning Again (1981 12 07 Salt Lake City and/or 1981 12 11 Santa Monica early)
Alien Orifice (q: Inca Roads) (1981 12 10 Berkeley early and 1981 12 12 San Diego early)
The Jazz Discharge Party Hats (possibly 1980 11 15 Carbondale, diff mix than on TMFU)
The Torture Never Stops guitar solo (1980 11 11 Toronto)
What's New In Baltimore? (same as on FZMTMOP but full guitar solo)
Moggio (basic tracks from 1981 11 27 Chicago late)
Black Page Guitar Solo (1981 12 12 San Diego early)
Clownz On Velvet (with Al di Meola, 1981 11 17 New York)
Frogs With Dirty Little Lips (with Ahmet, 1981 12 11 Santa Monica early)


Last edited by doctorzap on 2011-09-14 13:10; edited 2 times in total
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JWB
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Post 2011-09-14 11:49   [Quote] 
This totally clobbers the yojimbo, which is bright and NR'd. I think I'll tackle this one.
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JWB
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Post 2011-09-14 11:51   [Quote] 
Title says 2nd gen - info says 1st gen - which is it?
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robsam
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Post 2011-09-14 13:04   [Quote] 
JWB wrote:
Title says 2nd gen - info says 1st gen - which is it?


FZ to Scott Thunes to Den Simms to Me...I would say 2nd gen at best, but the quality is A+!

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JWB
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Post 2011-09-14 13:55   [Quote] 
It sounds great! I should have it up on the main tracker late tonight.
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Drew51
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Post 2011-09-14 14:01   [Quote] 
Robsam wrote:
JWB wrote:
Title says 2nd gen - info says 1st gen - which is it?


FZ to Scott Thunes to Den Simms to Me...I would say 2nd gen at best, but the quality is A+!


Yeah that would make it 3rd gen. Scott having a 1st gen from Frank. Best be conservative and use 3rd IMHO.
Thanks for this. I compare this to your earlier conversion, and this conversion sounds better. Good job DrZap!!
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Stucco Holmes
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Post 2011-09-14 14:50   [Quote] 
Since we are on this one, I havd d/led the current version from here, and had been given a copy from a friend from STG (back before I had a PC) and I noticed a glitch during the Chalk Pie track( around 4 min 10 sec ...) if I remember right it was on the version here as well as the other copy I have... am correct or is it a glitch in my memory bank...? hmm
I will go get my copies at lunch and check them for sure... Very Happy

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Last edited by Stucco Holmes on 2011-09-14 19:53; edited 2 times in total
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Pepe Nusbaum
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Post 2011-09-14 15:21   [Quote] 
beautiful

awesome

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If you just been lowered down here on tv by a wire connected to a brown leather harness, forced by a crazy person to insert a mysterious imported lamp into the reproductive orifice of a lady harpist, and you were a dwarf.....would you do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVafHLqjRmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEr7ym4-r5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdx7M5ufDfQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ip7U-aAMTc
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Stucco Holmes
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Post 2011-09-14 19:57   [Quote] 
Stucco Holmes wrote:
Since we are on this one, I havd d/led the current version from here, and had been given a copy from a friend from STG (back before I had a PC) and I noticed a glitch during the Chalk Pie track( around 4 min 10 sec ...) if I remember right it was on the version here as well as the other copy I have... am correct or is it a glitch in my memory bank...? hmm
I will go get my copies at lunch and check them for sure... Very Happy

Neutral
I just listened to this really crispy version, and the glitch is here also at 24.48 into Side A.
Thanks for this! This would have been a great release IMHO, but here it is for us to enjoy!! tunes
Love this!! thumbsup thumbsup

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robsam
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Post 2011-09-14 22:34   [Quote] 
Drew51 wrote:
Robsam wrote:
JWB wrote:
Title says 2nd gen - info says 1st gen - which is it?


FZ to Scott Thunes to Den Simms to Me...I would say 2nd gen at best, but the quality is A+!


Yeah that would make it 3rd gen. Scott having a 1st gen from Frank. Best be conservative and use 3rd IMHO.
Thanks for this. I compare this to your earlier conversion, and this conversion sounds better. Good job DrZap!!


Drew,
It depends on what Frank gave Scott. It could have been a master casette tape. I doubt Frank was dubbing cassettes, but who knows. But that's why I said 2nd gen at best. Personally, I don't think there's musch, if any difference between 1 or 2 generations as long as the tape decks used for the copying are good quality and have clean/demagnetized heads. I think we're guessing at the generation on 99% of my tapes anyway.

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Drew51
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Post 2011-09-15 01:06   [Quote] 
Quote:
I think we're guessing at the generation on 99% of my tapes anyway.


Yes, agreed, it doesn't matter that much, often with some even a master is really not a master. Say an FM broadcast, a master capture, but the tapes used at the radio station are the true master. Or those even could be 1st gens. heck many albums are made with generated tapes, or were in the old days. If it was muti-track (the 1st multi-tracks) it was a 1st gen at best, maybe a 2nd or 3rd gen, as you had to add tracks this way. Les Paul used to record the vocals and guitar last (not first), making them really stand out, while others added vocals first. The first multiple track recordings were made by playing the first two tracks, and adding another two, then rerecording and add even more, so often the tape was 5th or 6th generation. At least some tracks were. I learned this from the PBS special on Les Paul, which is a very cool documentary. Chasing Sound, I think? Was the name of it.

Most of us working with tapes can tell what generation btw, the amount of hiss keeps increasing with each generation. Well to a point anyway. The easiest way to tell is via "generational shift", which is when the overall sound begins to shift with each generation. It's a very strange phenomena. Often making 1st or 2nd gen actually sound better. Well sort of, it loses low end, and this is often not listened to and missed. Low gens will have great depth in low range. Generated tapes will retain a good high end, but not a good low end. It took us a few years to discover this with our constant sampling of various tapes. Looking at the FA/SA you can watch the shift to the right (higher frequencies) with each generation.
Of course poorly recorded tapes lose high end, using normal tape, etc, so the bottom line is the sound, not what generation.

An example of this might have just been posted in the shoebox. We will need to look at the low end to determine if the brightness is real or artificial.

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=22200
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robsam
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Post 2011-09-15 03:05   [Quote] 
Drew,
Didn't know that youse guys could figure out what generation a tape is so accurately...learned something new today, but will probably forget it by tomorrow.
Speaking of Les paul...ever seen the youtube clip of him and his 'little black box'?
It's from a TV special "He Changed the Music"...lots of guest stars like Tony Levin, David Gilmour, Stanley Jordan, BB King, Eddie Van Halen, etc.
This clip shows Les creating a multi-track improvisation live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wIgTm2DnPg
I got to see him live once...truely an amazing guy!

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doctorzap
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Post 2011-09-16 10:31   [Quote] 
I am not to happy about remastered versions appearing the same day as the raw transfers

I think I will just go back to releasing all these in the mastered state

if thats what is gonna happen to them

it took years to convince me that raw was better

if this is how its gonna be I will first release a mastered version to demonnoid

and then the raw version here !

clearly this was done just to piss me off and it worked !
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JWB
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Post 2011-09-16 10:43   [Quote] 
Ray - I had no intention of pissing you off - I had no idea that you would blow a gasket over this - perhaps you would like it if I gave you attention and kissed your ass, but I'm not gonna buy into your threats and drama - if you want to dissapoint the entire board - and all the people who PAID FOR YOUR DR-1 - then go ahead and be a dick - it won't be the first or the last time.
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Pepe Nusbaum
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Post 2011-09-16 10:50   [Quote] 
sorry that you're upset doc. Does that mean no seeds today Smile

I really appreciate you working on the tapes and looking forward to many more uploads. It appears that JWB tries to help out on these types of recordings and is just excited about it. I'd like to think he uploaded the remastered one cause it's something he always wanted to work on and finally got the chance. I wouldnt know for sure though. Anyway take it easy and thanks again.

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If you just been lowered down here on tv by a wire connected to a brown leather harness, forced by a crazy person to insert a mysterious imported lamp into the reproductive orifice of a lady harpist, and you were a dwarf.....would you do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVafHLqjRmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEr7ym4-r5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdx7M5ufDfQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ip7U-aAMTc
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