DSBD?

BognarRegis · 2011-08-04 19:49

I recently downloaded a recording of FZ October 17, 1980 from another tracker which claims to be DSBD (Digital Sound Board) sourced. Did Zappa have digital as early as 1980?

The reason I ask is because the recording sounds more like it has dbx or some form of noise reduction on it that opens and closes in the high end as opposed to an even open field in the high end like one would expect from a digital recording.

pbuzby · 2011-08-04 19:59

Zappa did record some shows from the Europe 1980 tour to digital (see YCDTOSA 1 liner notes) which were later used for the King Biscuit Flower Hour. However, I think the Dallas 80 "DSBD" label is probably a mistake, perhaps meaning that the analog recording was transferred to DAT before coming into circulation. A while back we had someone post here about being involved in getting this tape into circulation so perhaps we can locate that post.

JWB · 2011-08-05 01:50

It's a rough mix from cassette with a shit-ton of noise reduction applied to it. Perhaps the person who applied the noise reduction thought they could fool people into thinking it was a digital source. It didn't work...it just made the recording sound suffocated.

BognarRegis · 2011-08-06 03:11

I agree about it sounding suffocated. The noise reduction is so heavy on it the cymbals sound like they have blankets on them. They just go "clank" like hitting a suspended garbage can lid or a guardrail.

JWB · 2011-08-06 06:13

It seems that the person who did the original transfer added the NR, insisted it was for the better and refused to give out NR-free copies. Thankfully 99% of the tapes on the tracker are free of NR...but sadly this one is not one of them. This will hopefully change someday.

doctorzap · 2011-08-06 10:30

Maybe the grape could help thats where I got it from

pbuzby · 2011-08-06 15:29

The Buffalo show from 1980 10 25 was recorded to three sources (24-track, 8-track and cassette). According to the vaultmeister the cassette was only used for the middle of "Stick It Out" (listen on headphones and you should be able to tell which part) on the CD. My guess is that the Dallas show eight days earlier was recorded the same way and that what we have in this traded version is the cassette source, especially since "Pick Me I'm Clean" cuts here but is heard complete on TR.

That bit in "Stick It Out" sounds fairly bad so, if the Dallas cassette sounded the same way, that may explain something about the cymbal sound and the theory that applying NR would help.

That said, a copy without NR would certainly be welcome.

Fruitcake · 2011-08-06 20:25

Just out of curiosity, have you tried playback through a deck with DBX ?

I have a lot of DBX master tapes and although they are prone to variation depending on the circuitry of the playback deck ['pulsing' to a degree], most are still fine & have a dynamic range not often found on modern CDs. You just have to hang on to the compatible decks & repair as required come hell or high waters !
I've noticed [by accident] that if you play back a DBX encoded signal without using DBX, it comes out sounding like it's being played on an old transistor radio.
Is this the problem you're hearing ?

BognarRegis · 2011-08-06 20:35

I wouldn't say it sounds like a transister radio. to me those sound tinny like listening to music through the speakers on a cell phone. This is different. The bottom and mid is fine it's the high end that is stiffed. like being in a room with a "lowered" ceiling. It's most apparent when the cymbals are hit. All the resonance is removed with the tape hiss. which appears upon impact for a split second and disappears with the rest of the cymbal sound.

Just in case anyone wants to hear what I'm talking about, here's the link to the recording in question.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73008

mycroftxxx · 2011-08-06 21:02

JWB · 2011-08-07 06:32

Fruitcake · 2011-08-07 21:31

There don't appear to be any seeders for this on TTD at the moment. I'll see if I can get it and give it a listen.
If it is a DBX encoded tape that someone has tried to EQ to attempt to get it back to "normal" sounding, then it should be obvious from a quick listen.
You are right in that listening to a DBX encoded tape without DBX is exactly like listening to it on small phone speakers, normally very tinny & just sounds odd. Essentially DBX work by halving the volume of the input signal db, so louder sounds are quieter & quiet sounds are less affected, then reversing this on playback. From what you are describing, I'd expect to hear a serious drop in mid range, so if the mid is OK then it's unlikely to be a DBX encoded signal.
If I get any seeders, I'll let you know Smile

BognarRegis · 2011-08-07 21:49

Fruitcake · 2011-08-08 01:00

Don't think it's DBX encoded as it's a bit too punchy. The toms & the crash cymbals would have been cut back in relation to the background music.
It sounds more like a monitor mix, probably for Tommy Mars, but I'm guessing here.

BognarRegis · 2011-08-08 01:48