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Karlheinz Stockhausen ~ FZ
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yetanother
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Post 2019-03-12 16:49   [Quote] 
I dunno, Kontakte is quite a hit... and I actually prefer the original version without instruments.

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-03-12 16:53   [Quote] 
yetanother wrote:
I dunno, Kontakte is quite a hit... and I actually prefer the original version without instruments.


now that's just showing off lol! but it is interesting to compare my friend
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cookie_manager
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Post 2019-03-12 23:14   [Quote] 
oofers wrote:
Relevant to the idea quoted above is "musical fractals".
There's also the term "granular synthesis" floating around. I'm not 100% sure what it means. But it's a big thing in electronic music. Maybe it also fits to the example Adam Neely gives at the start of that video.
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that pitch and rhythm are interchangeable.
It's been a while that I read about "Kontakte" (I always refer to the tape only version), but isn't that pitch-rhythm thing exactly one point in Kontakte? It sounds very much like a Stockhausen theory.

Zappa's music is full of hyperfast (synclavier) lines, and now I try to remember if there's any examples in his electronic works where he uses that speed-short-noise-up-until-it-gets-a-pitch-quality thing.

Wait - snorks are based on a similar principle! So there it is in FZ's oeuvre! And Dick Barber represents early meisterment of fractal snork synthesis.

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yetanother
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Post 2019-03-13 05:53   [Quote] 
cookie_manager wrote:
oofers wrote:
Relevant to the idea quoted above is "musical fractals".
There's also the term "granular synthesis" floating around. I'm not 100% sure what it means. But it's a big thing in electronic music. Maybe it also fits to the example Adam Neely gives at the start of that video.

I haven't watched the video, but I love granular synthesis. In fact, it's the only kind of synthesis I love, because you can start with any kind of base material and end up with something entirely different depending on how you shape it.

cookie_manager wrote:
Quote:
that pitch and rhythm are interchangeable.
It's been a while that I read about "Kontakte" (I always refer to the tape only version), but isn't that pitch-rhythm thing exactly one point in Kontakte? It sounds very much like a Stockhausen theory.

The most "didactic" and well-known example, which he used to illustrate his theory in his paper "The Unit of Musical Time" (or something like that, it's been decades since I read it) occurs exactly at the middle of the piece, but allegedly all of Kontakte was composed with pulse generators, using similar procedures.

cookie_manager wrote:
Zappa's music is full of hyperfast (synclavier) lines, and now I try to remember if there's any examples in his electronic works where he uses that speed-short-noise-up-until-it-gets-a-pitch-quality thing.

Wait - snorks are based on a similar principle! So there it is in FZ's oeuvre! And Dick Barber represents early meisterment of fractal snork synthesis.

Pitch shifting is an extraordinary thing - not only speeding things up but also slowing them down. It's something I encourage anyone to experiment with in their free time. FZ certainly thought so too.

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oofers
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Post 2019-03-13 15:45   [Quote] 
cookie_manager wrote:
oofers wrote:
Relevant to the idea quoted above is "musical fractals".
There's also the term "granular synthesis" floating around. I'm not 100% sure what it means. But it's a big thing in electronic music. Maybe it also fits to the example Adam Neely gives at the start of that video.


Seems like the idea of "musical fractals" is a type of granular synthesis in that, what is created from the little "blips" sped up is the original "blip" itself, played at normal speed.

In the video, he uses the abysmal "All Star". The melody of that song being sped up to such a degree as to create the blips that are then played at whatever Hz to render the same melody is cool concept, if somewhat of a parlor trick. I mean, after all, any blip would do the job. But this way, the music literally becomes recursive.

cookie_manager wrote:

Wait - snorks are based on a similar principle! So there it is in FZ's oeuvre! And Dick Barber represents early meisterment of fractal snork synthesis.

Ha, I guess so!

Okay, get Vai in here to transcribe them!
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scherbe2003
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Post 2019-03-13 23:12   [Quote] 
On a side note, according to this article here (http://www.markusheuger.de/theory/stocktown.pdf), Stockhausen visited Zappa (I translate:) "in 1969 after a Mothers of Invention concert in Madison", no source provided. I can't recall having heard that before.

In an interview with David Paul that appeared in Seconds Magazine 44 (1997), Stockhausen had this to say about FZ: "Zappa was a lost composer: he wanted to please all sides - which never works." The complete interview used to be available online from Stockhausen's homepage, but no longer is.
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yetanother
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Post 2019-03-13 23:23   [Quote] 
scherbe2003 wrote:
On a side note, according to this article here (http://www.markusheuger.de/theory/stocktown.pdf), Stockhausen visited Zappa (I translate:) "in 1969 after a Mothers of Invention concert in Madison", no source provided. I can't recall having heard that before.

I do recall hearing that before, precisely 3 pages ago, and with a source that I didn't check:

arf wrote:
According to Michael Kurtz (Stockhausen, a biography , transl. Richard Toop - Faber and Faber, 1994, pp 170-171) :

"Stockhausen spent the first three months [of 1969] back in Madison (...)
After John Lennon, Frank Zappa was probably the pop musician whom Stockhausen regarded most highly; during that stay in Madison he went to hear a concert by Zappa and the 'Mothers of Invention' in New York, and he later met Zappa."

PS - p. xi, the author writes about "Karlheinz Stockhausen himself, who generously checked the typescript and was able to add a few more details".


scherbe2003 wrote:
In an interview with David Paul that appeared in Seconds Magazine 44 (1997), Stockhausen had this to say about FZ: "Zappa was a lost composer: he wanted to please all sides - which never works."

This I don't recall having heard before, but I'm not surprised.

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scherbe2003
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Post 2019-03-13 23:44   [Quote] 
I do recall hearing that before, precisely 3 pages ago, and with a source that I didn't check:[/quote]

Oops, I'm sorry, I really missed that. Embarassed

The Stockhausen interview is apparently reprinted here (but I don't have that book):
Blush, Steven and Petros, George (eds), 45 Dangerous Minds: The Most Intense Interviews from "Seconds" Magazine. London: Creation Books (2005)

I'm pretty damn sure I downloaded the interview (quite) a while back from his then-homepage but no clue where I saved it. The way I remember, he rants a lot about all kinds of people and things.
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rubbershirt
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Post 2019-03-14 18:51   [Quote] 
scherbe2003 wrote:
In an interview with David Paul that appeared in Seconds Magazine 44 (1997), Stockhausen had this to say about FZ: "Zappa was a lost composer: he wanted to please all sides - which never works."

Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion and of course I’m just a nobody, but this seems a gross misunderstanding of who Zappa was trying to please and sounds like something Rolling Stone Magazine would print. Unless Stockhausen was referring to some Freudian everyone in Zappa’s head.
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yetanother
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Post 2019-03-14 20:13   [Quote] 
rubbershirt wrote:
scherbe2003 wrote:
In an interview with David Paul that appeared in Seconds Magazine 44 (1997), Stockhausen had this to say about FZ: "Zappa was a lost composer: he wanted to please all sides - which never works."

Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion and of course I’m just a nobody, but this seems a gross misunderstanding of who Zappa was trying to please and sounds like something Rolling Stone Magazine would print.

Of course it is. I'm not a Rolling Stone reader though, so to me it sounds exactly like something Stockhausen would say.

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-03-15 10:20   [Quote] 
i once read a quote possibly by Sir Jon Barbirolli when asked whether he had listened to Stockhausen he replied ' No but I trod in some once'.
great quote lol though I don't agree with it.
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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-03-15 10:23   [Quote] 
Hold the bus this is the original quote..
"Have you heard any Stockhausen?" Beecham was asked. "No, but I believe I have stepped in some."

Thomas Beecham
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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-03-15 10:26   [Quote] 
John Barbirolli's was 'Modern music is three farts and a raspberry orchestrated'. I'm suprised Frank didn't record that!
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feralcats
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Post 2019-03-15 11:14   [Quote] 
hm, hearing that Stockhausen actually had interest in FZ makes me more interested in him than I've ever been before. Of course, the same thing happened with Schnittke, who was supposed to have enjoyed the LSO album a lot...gonna check out a lot of the pieces discussed here

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CheepnisAroma
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Post 2019-03-15 14:37   [Quote] 
New on Mode Records: Kurzwellen

"Premier of the new performing version by C.L.S.I. for 4 instruments, 4 shortwave radios, 6 computers, and conductor — C.L.S.I. Ensemble, Paul Mefano, conductor"

http://moderecords.com/order.html#STOCKHAUSEN
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