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Karlheinz Stockhausen ~ FZ
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franktomatozappa
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Post 2019-03-11 00:42   [Quote] 
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
FZ was sitting at/by/in(?) a water fountain and, suddenly, KS appears, I shit you not...


laughing my ass off
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pbuzby
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Post 2019-03-11 01:40   [Quote] 
feralcats wrote:
I think I remember there being an old interview from the 60's where someone asks Zappa what his ideal woman would be and after a number of other things says something like "she should be able to play Stockhausen's Klavierstucke..."


http://www.afka.net/Articles/1967-01_TeenSet.htm

Quote:
7. What is your conception of your Dream Girl?

She is an attractive pariah, with an I.Q. well over 228, with complete mastery of “Br'er Rabbit,” any five Indian cookbooks, the Dead Sea Scrolls, The Pat Buttram Story (she gotta know all the words to the album!); no interest whatsoever in any way in sports, sunshine, deodorant, lip stick, chewing gum, carbon tetrachloride, television, ice cream ... none of that stuff!

In short – a wholesome young underground morsel open to suggestion!

P.S. I don't even care if she shaves her legs. Just about anybody will do if they can dance. I'm not really sure any of this is true. I'll have to check it out a couple of times. Wait! Any girl is all right as long as she doesn't have hair like Bob Dylan, or maybe she could even have that if she knows how to ride a motorcycle. I might even like her better if she can play Stockhausen on the piano – Klavierstück XII.
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yetanother
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Post 2019-03-11 02:47   [Quote] 
That's fantastic, if I were a woman I would still flunk almost every requisite in that list.

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cookie_manager
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Post 2019-03-11 08:14   [Quote] 
WHile that interview is from 1967, Stockhausen's Klavierstück XII was composed only in ~1978/79. FZ possibly meant XI and got the number wrong.

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oofers
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Post 2019-03-11 14:05   [Quote] 
FZ wrote:
The Pat Buttram Story (she gotta know all the words to the album!)


Any idea what he means by this?

I know who Pat Buttram is -- Gene Autrey's sidekick and Mr. Haney from "Green Acres".

But "Story"? And "words to the album"?
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drdork
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Post 2019-03-11 15:17   [Quote] 
oofers wrote:
FZ wrote:
The Pat Buttram Story (she gotta know all the words to the album!)

Any idea what he means by this?

I know who Pat Buttram is -- Gene Autrey's sidekick and Mr. Haney from "Green Acres".

But "Story"? And "words to the album"?

Maybe As I Look into Your Faces (1961) or Off His Rocker! (1962).

We Wuz Poor would seem more likely, if not for the 1971 release date. (Liner notes available here.)
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oofers
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Post 2019-03-11 15:50   [Quote] 
drdork wrote:
oofers wrote:
FZ wrote:
The Pat Buttram Story (she gotta know all the words to the album!)

Any idea what he means by this?

I know who Pat Buttram is -- Gene Autrey's sidekick and Mr. Haney from "Green Acres".

But "Story"? And "words to the album"?

Maybe As I Look into Your Faces (1961) or Off His Rocker! (1962).

We Wuz Poor would seem more likely, if not for the 1971 release date. (Liner notes available here.)


Ha, never knew he recorded. No album called "The Pat Buttram Story" as far as I can tell, though.

Thanks.
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brainpang
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Post 2019-03-11 22:23   [Quote] 
Mr. Haney! Always the highlight of Green Acres.
yea, I want to score the LP now. I figure FZ refers to the Rocker! LP. Look at the track titles for the other one the good dr linked to. Seems more like a business card for his Master of Ceremonies career. Doubt that's the one. Buuuut, yea, I WISH it was the We Wuz Poor record. Check out the copies for sale on discogs. 3 of the 7 available copies are in Denmark?! Are the Danes Butt-Ram fetishists? Good Grief, I want that one, too now... [feel free to insert dildo... commentary here:_____.]

(from Stockhausen to Haney. Great Thread!)


Last edited by brainpang on 2019-03-12 00:37; edited 2 times in total
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brainpang
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Post 2019-03-11 23:00   [Quote] 
Jim Lahey wrote:
brainpang wrote:
nitramziarreh wrote:
brainpang wrote:
And of course the biggie, if not a down-right rip-off, is Frank's approximation of MOMENTE on the material that became 200 Motels.


What is the approximation? If it's just his use of moment form and discontinuity, then it's too superficial a connection to be considered an influence of Stockhausen on Zappa. As a matter of fact, Stravinsky was using "moment form" in his early works long before Stockhausen even invented the term, so that aspect of FZ's music is more likely a direct influence of Stravinsky (and of FZ's own experiments with tape editing) than of Stockhausen.


Parts of Motels sound like FZ may as well cut in a recording off Stockhausens LP. If it was more melodic or something, it wd be clearly regarded as a quote. I'm just a layman here, but I think you have had too much to think.

Just bought a copy of Momente and having never heard it before, halfway through side 1 my thought was "This sounds like 200 Motels."


My dated and ignorant comments aside, I think there is a VIBE of similarity there (tho' the last time I listened to Momente it was less pronounced, will have to check it out again). But I get breeds of dogs mixed up, too.
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yetanother
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Post 2019-03-12 02:32   [Quote] 
OK, take a choir, a solo soprano, an organ, some massive percussion, a couple of nonsense vocal noises here and there, occasionally a fanfare. With that in mind, I could come up with a whole list of works that "sound like 200 Motels". Maybe I will.

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cookie_manager
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Post 2019-03-12 07:49   [Quote] 
I don't hear much similarity either between Momente & 200 Motels. Maybe a few chaotic gestures in 200 Motels have a similar vibe, but then again that's how much of 60s contemporary vocal+ensemble-music sounded like. That's probably also what yetanother aims at with that last comment.

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-03-12 09:29   [Quote] 
possibly KH's greatest hit... i've loved this since I first heard it in 1972...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Psx24n3rM

nothing like Frank but similar in the sense of the 60's avante garde...

for all you youngsters out there check this hot biscuit out if you want some education on this genre..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OjuC2XZm6s&list=OLAK5uy_n_ipFFQKh-abX_9H89rz3hNRNwoVne80o
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cookie_manager
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Post 2019-03-12 14:26   [Quote] 
wingedeelfingerling wrote:
possibly KH's greatest hit... i've loved this since I first heard it in 1972...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Psx24n3rM
You likely refer to "Gesang...". But after learning about trap beats in hip hop, I included the other one, Kontakte, to my reference material in my drum lessons... it uses a certain form of sound synthesis... if you take a click sound and have it in very fast succession, you start to hear a pitch. Hip hop for instance uses that effect too here and there (I'm actually a fan of this https://youtu.be/RvUVxYndYuU?t=100 example), and those drum learning youngsters need to recognise that + learn where it started, damn! Smile

Another very interesting thread would be about stuff you achieve with a few mouse clicks on a PC today that Stockhausen and others invented back in the 50s/60s in electronic tape music (the serialists among them actually getting there from a line-age like Romantic music - Schönberg - Webern...).

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-03-12 16:48   [Quote] 
I do love a proper intelligent thread a fascinating exploratory conversation, intellectually satisfying and full of discovery... I'm really at the stage of knowing what I like with experimental music this discussion has given me a much greater understanding.
Incidentally I am currently getting into deep cuts of Eric Satie... the man who invented ambient amongst other genres superb listen in these troubling times.


Last edited by wingedeelfingerling on 2019-03-12 16:52; edited 2 times in total
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oofers
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Post 2019-03-12 16:48   [Quote] 
cookie_manager wrote:
if you take a click sound and have it in very fast succession, you start to hear a pitch. Hip hop for instance uses that effect too here and there (I'm actually a fan of this https://youtu.be/RvUVxYndYuU?t=100 example), and those drum learning youngsters need to recognise that + learn where it started, damn! Smile


I wonder if there are any fellow Adam Neely fans here.

His videos are well-made and often thought-provoking, even if I sometimes strongly disagree with him.

Relevant to the idea quoted above is "musical fractals". He goes on to say that it shows, in a way, that pitch and rhythm are interchangeable.

He chose perhaps the shittiest song of all time for his demostration, but it's still pretty cool.
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