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Karlheinz Stockhausen ~ FZ
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brainpang
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Post 2010-10-17 15:07   [Quote] 
CheepnisAroma wrote:
Do you like Stockhausen's music, ladies and gentlemen?

For some reason, I never noticed how Oktophonie is "similar" to Civilization Phaze III until a few days ago. Just listen to Oktophonie: doesn't it remind you of another album? I'd like to know what you think. (maybe it's just my imagination)

Have you picked up other similarities between Karlheinz's music and FZ?


I'll have to give that a listen, but another piece from around the same time (1990 -- 1992?) I found to be reminiscent to Civ3, that being Synthi Fou which is the synth part from Tuesday From Light. Parts of these may even be new renditions of the old Klavierstucke series but I'd have to go check.
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brainpang
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Post 2010-10-17 15:26   [Quote] 
nitramziarreh wrote:
brainpang wrote:
KS was also into 'sound projection,' experimenting with mic placement, and all that stuff pretty much before anyone, right?

More or less. Although he did pioneer some aspects of the use of space in music composition, he was part of a much larger esthetic "movement" in the 1950's. You can't really say he started experimenting with "all that stuff" before Berio or Schaeffer, for instance."

Sure I can! I'm not talking about spacial aspects, I'm talking about the 1964+ touring group. It has a distinct sound, as distinct as the Mothers. It is like the electric guitar pre and post Hendrix.

brainpang wrote:
And of course the biggie, if not a down-right rip-off, is Frank's approximation of MOMENTE on the material that became 200 Motels.

What is the approximation? If it's just his use of moment form and discontinuity, then it's too superficial a connection to be considered an influence of Stockhausen on Zappa. As a matter of fact, Stravinsky was using "moment form" in his early works long before Stockhausen even invented the term, so that aspect of FZ's music is more likely a direct influence of Stravinsky (and of FZ's own experiments with tape editing) than of Stockhausen.


Sure I can! I'm not talking about spacial aspects, I'm talking about the 1964+ touring group. It has a distinct sound, as distinct as the Mothers. It is like the electric guitar pre and post Hendrix.

Oh, no. Parts of Motels sound like FZ may as well cut in a recording off Stockhausens LP. If it was more melodic or something, it wd be clearly regarded as a quote. I'm just a layman here, but I think you have had too much to think.
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yetanother
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Post 2010-10-17 15:46   [Quote] 
OK - since I can't identify any Stockhausen on 200 Motels, I just figured you might be making more abstract (rather than arbitrary) connections. I suppose you either have a much better ear than me for identifying Stockhausen quotes or you have nothing else to compare Zappa to.

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arf
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Post 2010-10-25 16:10   [Quote] 
According to Michael Kurtz (Stockhausen, a biography , transl. Richard Toop - Faber and Faber, 1994, pp 170-171) :

"Stockhausen spent the first three months [of 1969] back in Madison (...)
After John Lennon, Frank Zappa was probably the pop musician whom Stockhausen regarded most highly; during that stay in Madison he went to hear a concert by Zappa and the 'Mothers of Invention' in New York, and he later met Zappa."

PS - p. xi, the author writes about "Karlheinz Stockhausen himself, who generously checked the typescript and was able to add a few more details".


Last edited by arf on 2010-10-26 13:19; edited 1 time in total
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Fastfatty
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Post 2010-10-25 16:39   [Quote] 
I find it strange that Frank didn't mention in his bio that he met Stockhausen in 69 when he mentioned a brief encounter with him in high school.

My favorite Stockhausen work is, besides his piano works, "Michael's Reise". Beautiful and strange. Check it out.

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(who is not at all fat by American standards)
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yetanother
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Post 2010-10-25 16:46   [Quote] 
arf wrote:
According to Michael Kurtz (Stockhausen, a biography - Faber and Faber, 1994, pp 170-171) :

"Stockhausen spent the first three months [of 1969] back in Madison (...)
After John Lennon, Frank Zappa was probably the pop musician whom Stockhausen regarded most highly; during that stay in Madison he went to hear a concert by Zappa and the 'Mothers of Invention' in New York, and he later met Zappa."

That's odd - I never even heard Stockhausen mention Zappa (or Lennon, for that matter) hmm

It's hard to believe that he actually attended a Mothers concert...

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brainpang
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Post 2010-11-05 01:05   [Quote] 
deleted as it was nonsense..
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yetanother
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Post 2010-11-05 13:20   [Quote] 
Well, from everything I know about Stockhausen, I still find it odd. Of course, it may just be that I'm prejudicious about him. (I usually am about guys with big egos who claim they come from Sirius.)

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brainpang
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Post 2010-11-05 13:40   [Quote] 
Yes, I know what you are saying, but there always is an element of show biz about it. Not at a Sun Ra or Beefheart level, but I do think it's rolled in there, even if KS himself could no longer distinguish. Anyway, I like the crazy composer syndrome....when it works. I mean, he's got some seriously alien recordings out there. And yet they don't grate, they seem whole, soothing even. That's quite an accomplishment. Anyway, here's to Frank and his 70th B-day celebration.
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yetanother
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Post 2010-11-05 14:05   [Quote] 
Yeah, I agree, but you don't have to be an alien to write good music... there's a lot of Earthlings who can prove it! Very Happy

(anyone who bothers to write music nowadays gotta be crazy, anyway...)

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Post 2010-11-05 14:55   [Quote] 
nitramziarreh wrote:
(anyone who bothers to write music nowadays gotta be crazy, anyway...)


I agree totally Very Happy

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brainpang
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Post 2010-11-06 12:58   [Quote] 
nitramziarreh wrote:
Yeah, I agree, but you don't have to be an alien to write good music... there's a lot of Earthlings who can prove it! Very Happy

(anyone who bothers to write music nowadays gotta be crazy, anyway...)


Have you checked out the movie "(untitled)" ?
Revolves around the trials and tribulations of an avant garde composer.
A pretty good send up of the scene.

The NY Times review: http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/10/23/movies/23untitled.html
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yetanother
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Post 2010-11-07 03:44   [Quote] 
brainpang wrote:
Have you checked out the movie "(untitled)" ?

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know about it. I'm too drunk to read right now, but I'll try to remember that when I get back home in 2 weeks or so.

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arf
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Post 2010-12-23 20:45   [Quote] 
There was apparently a connection between FZ and Harry Partch :
According to Ben Johnston, "[ HP] liked rock. He later knew Frank Zappa, who ate up what Harry did. I'm told they got along great." When Partch was rehearsing Delusion of the Fury at UCLA, Zappa took great interest in its progress." (Irwin Chusid - Songs in the key of Z. The curious universe of outsider music. p 260)
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yetanother
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Post 2010-12-23 21:15   [Quote] 
arf wrote:
According to Ben Johnston, "[ HP] liked rock. He later knew Frank Zappa, who ate up what Harry did. I'm told they got along great."

Interesting to hear it from Johnston, who is himself an extraordinary composer (IMO). But "he's told"... did he hear it from Partch himself or what?

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