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1978 10 31 NYC NY AUD 1st (SH-SH) 2 sample sets  
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Drew51
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Post 2009-10-20 16:28   [Quote] 
We have three versions for the so-called floor source of this show. Our current seed:
http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11242
Bengo says this is a 2nd gen and I concur. The first gen from Steve Hecht sounds very similar, but with less hiss. I did not include samples of current seed, but one should compare all the same.
The 2nd source is from FZMOI69 and the 3rd from Steve Hecht himself. This torrent has samples from the FZMOI69 and Steve Hecht's copy to compare.
Everybody should have the current version and considering it would take me a good 40 minutes to prep samples from that source, I decided to skip it. But all should pull out the versions and compare.
OK, some notes on this recording;
The taper starts tape and is having obvious azimuth problems. The only way to optimize the start and fix or at least improve the azimuth would be if we had the master. We do not. Changing azimuth position on my 1st gen had no effect on sound during this flawed start. Once tape alligns (thank God!)
it sounds sweet! The taper must have run out of tape, and the last song is missing.
First gens from different dub lines can sound way different. We have discovered this time again. Here again this happens as these tapes sound very different. For the flawed start I kinda like the FZMOI69 version, but once tape kicks in, the Hecht version sounds superior to me. It's brighter, maybe a tad too much, but also mid-range and low end are fuller. Sampled here are start and finish and all tape flips.
I did not do any drop out editing, but some repairs around tape flips of dropouts is needed.

Oh, also I kinda like the Hecht version of 1978 10 29 also. I have not looked at, or even know what other Hecht shows from 78 that Steve send? I would guess though we should look at them.
Samples of all versions of 1978 10 29 are on the tracker.

draft text for the Hecht source:

Frank Zappa
Palladium, New York, NY
1978 10 31
Source: First generation audience recording
Lineage: Maxell XLII Epitaxial Cassettes(1st gen)>Nakamichi CR-7A cassette deck>Tascam US-122L>
Sound Forge 9.0 (record/edits/resample)>FLAC Level 8
Taped By: Unknown? (Probably Hank)
Aquired from: The Steve Hecht collection
Transferred By: Drew51
Edited By: Drew51
Line Up:FZ, Patrick O'Hearn, Denny Walley, Arthur Barrow, Vinnie Colaiuta, Ed Mann, Tommy Mars,
Peter Wolf L. Shankar (*) and Warren Cucurullo (**).

Set list:
Ancient Armaments [H, part on TFZAABB]
Dancin' Fool [H]
Easy Meat
Honey Don't You Want A Man Like Me?
Keep It Greasey
The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing
City Of Tiny Lights
A Pound For A Brown
Thirteen* [guitar solo on YCDTOSA6]
Ms. X story**
fantasy from a girl from the audience
Dinah-Moe Humm
Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder / Little Rubber Girl [YCDTOSA4]
The Idiot Bastard Son
Bobby Brown
Conehead*
Suicide Chump
Little House I Used To Live In* [incl. Zeets, H]
Watermelon In Easter Hay*
Stinkfoot [H]
Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance* [YCDTOSA6]
Peaches En Regalia
Strictly Genteel
Sofa
Packard Goose*
Magic Fingers [parts on H]
Yellow Snow Suite [incl. Don't Eat The Yellow Snow, H]
Camarillo Brillo
Muffin Man
Black Napkins [H]
The Deathless Horsie* [H] <missing>

Notes: Thanks to Steve for providing us wih this gem!!
Credits:
2009 - Drew51 ZRP/Zappateers Archives


Last edited by Drew51 on 2012-01-20 22:33; edited 1 time in total
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Yojimbo
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Post 2009-10-20 17:43   [Quote] 
The Hecht tapes sound just as good as I was hoping, definitely one notch better than the fzmoi69 version. I hope this can be patched with the JS master clone, and vice-versa, so we'll have two complete A- versions for this show!
Zappacheers!
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jgrem
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Post 2009-10-20 18:02   [Quote] 
I am NO authority on these issues, but I'm curious as to why the recent Shoeboxed JS version has been left out of the running....Am I mistaken? Someone help.
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Drew51
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Post 2009-10-20 18:07   [Quote] 
Quote:
I am NO authority on these issues, but I'm curious as to why the recent Shoeboxed JS version has been left out of the running


That one is already a go, you can't compete against a master (well that is not always true, an aged master, a badly transferred or unknown problem may require a superior first gen instead. Not in this case though). We are deciding what to use to fill it, and also as an alternative version. Both will be put out, no doubt!


Last edited by Drew51 on 2009-10-20 18:11; edited 1 time in total
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jgrem
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Post 2009-10-20 19:43   [Quote] 
Fantastic! Thanks for the info
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aegert
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Post 2009-10-22 01:33   [Quote] 
I will get with Barry on this.... He recorded every Halloween show from 76 until the end I believe. He is regarded to be in many circles the greatest of the stealth tapers form the east coast.. MOTB just did the 76 early and late and will do all of Barry's FZ masters with either DR-1's or CR7a's into High Z to Low z Matched Grace lunatec v3's for gain adjustment >> Korg MR-1000's at DSD wide ... So stay tuned..

We have reached out to people here but there has not seemed to be any interest. We would love someone form Zappateers to be part of the team evaluating and QC'ng the stuff so reach out to me. It should be one of your seeders ....

Love A

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zappa4ever
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Post 2009-10-22 03:31   [Quote] 
Hi aegert,

Thanks for posting here, I'm sure there's a lot of zappateers very excited at icon95 multi FOB Halloween masters icon95 myself included and I hope you won't have to wait long to get some of the regulars to throw their hats into the ring

I've enjoyed several of the MOTB releases at other trackers, thanks to all involved, esp. the old-school tapirz who blazed the trail!

I assume you're aware that the '77 & '78 Halloween runs have a lot of officially released material so dime would not be the place to seed those, do you plan to seed those here or LL or TTD or elsewhere?

Excited at the new possibilities!
cheers

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Drew51
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Post 2009-10-22 04:18   [Quote] 
Quote:
We have reached out to people here but there has not seemed to be any interest. We would love someone form Zappateers to be part of the team evaluating and QC'ng the stuff so reach out to me. It should be one of your seeders


This year has been crazy with two other legends of Zappa taping have let loose on us. These guys taped 40-50 shows each of Zappa. We are just so swamped. We developed the Shoebox for backup as we can't keep pace with how many masters and low gen versions are showing up. We like to present all sources, and Barry's recordings are great! I really look forward to them being presented here. If you would like input I can help some.
This forum; samples is our work station. I thinbki it is the best forum on the internet. We have servers in the background for editors to gain access to material. We have few editors, and loads of material. This show here, is very good, and if Barry want's to fill his tape flips on 1978 10 31, this is the version to use (Steve Hecht 1st gen). We also have master (fzmoi69), but this is slightly better IMHO. Niether is in FZShows yet.
Flambay and I can help find the best fills, and Flambay can also check pitch. If needed?
Fills can be passed to you via server, or we could do them. Whatever works for you.

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=17

See above and check out sticky messages on naming and seeding standards. Also remember no definitive source ever leaves the tracker, unlike other sites, all of our seeds are available anytime, no seeders, just ask in requests. Barry's seeds will always be available. they will fall off other trackers, but not here.
We like to present all sources, and Barry's are killer!!! As our many others. We have examples from many great tapers.
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aegert
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Post 2009-10-22 11:22   [Quote] 
Hey.. I am getting with Barry next week. I will be taking a couple more masters. It takes us time to do these as we are slammed with all of Menke's stuff as well and we have lives outside of the hobby...

We have a pvt tracker and ftp like you and do critical listening back and forth.. AS ours is PVT you wouldn't see it..

We would love to seed here but we adhere to the etree naming conventions. It would be nice to have one of your seeder/ editors available at our tracker to take part by converting our output to Zappateers output and seeding here..

We do not seed at LL it'a a rule for us.. The stuff gets there but not by us or any member of our tracker.. The admins there have sort of made our lives there un fun... We don't do un-fun.. it's a hobby... I would add the stuff usually gets there, and we want it to, after having been seeded elsewhere.

Our Zappa out put will not be large as we it will be every few months.. It would be nice to have your approval though so if anyone is interested please get to me. Please only one of your people who is engaged in seeding and quality control..

I would add that we are tapers in NYC... We know many of the guys here... There is one taper that was a total Frank head who traveled and taped.. Barry is very good friends with him. He still is closed and doesn't give out sources. We hare hoping to trade some of what we are doing for a few of his masters so stay tuned. If there is anybody you are trying to get to here, NYC is a hub for tapers we are many, let me know I can reach out for you. We are in touch with Pat Lee that recorded most of the Capital Theater Port Chester.. The Mothers played there. Rob Berger is on our site and he has all of Jerry Moore's masters.. John Seinthal is on the team and he is in Europe monthly. We talk to Rob Cohen, All of Jim Vita's masters, John Hance, Joe Beacon is one of my close friends we tape together all the time he is a Zappa freak... The list goes on and on.. So reach out.. If I can help you guys in any way let me know..

Thanks so much for your interest.

A Smile

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Drew51
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Post 2009-10-23 00:31   [Quote] 
Quote:
If I can help you guys in any way let me know..

Thanks so much for your interest.


Back at you! Thanks and we are now hooked up and such. Thanks again as we feel these recordings are historic. I have heard of so many collections lost to time, and death of the taper, we need to preserve these historic documents for people not even born yrt, so thnaks much again, and we will talk soon.
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flambay
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Post 2010-01-22 22:47   [Quote] 
Yojimbo wrote:
The Hecht tapes sound just as good as I was hoping, definitely one notch better than the fzmoi69 version. I hope this can be patched with the JS master clone, and vice-versa, so we'll have two complete A- versions for this show!
Zappacheers!

I'm afraid we won't be able to get this show completed with just these two sources.
(source #1: Hecht-Drew51 1st gen, fzmoi69-doctorzap 1st gen, BengoFury 2nd gen;
source#2: JS-doctorzap MC)

When combining these two sources we still have a portion missing in the Pound > Thirteen segue,
and also at the end of the show: the Hecht cuts off at start of Deathless Horsie, while both JS and fzmoi69 versions are cutting off even earlier, during Black Napkins,
so that means, the patches in our BengoFury-ZappaPenguin seed (Pound, Deathless Horsie) have to be from a third source.
Anyone with a lower gen version of that third source to take patches from instead, just in case ?

I agree with Drew and Yojimbo, overall the Hecht sounds much superior to the fzmoi version, only exception being the start of the show (Ancient Armament - 1st part).
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Drew51
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Post 2010-01-22 23:48   [Quote] 
We then need to wait for the Glassberg version which may be some time. Maybe put on hold till we can complete it. We could ask ask aegert on statis?
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doctorzap
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Post 2010-08-15 08:06   [Quote] 
Drew51 wrote:
We then need to wait for the Glassberg version which may be some time. Maybe put on hold till we can complete it. We could ask ask aegert on statis?


I dont think that will be coming any time soon
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Drew51
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Post 2010-08-15 13:41   [Quote] 
Quote:

I dont think that will be coming any time soon


Agreed, appears to be held hostage. I tried to help these guys, but what they want, and what skills I have don't match.
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doctorzap
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Post 2010-08-16 09:08   [Quote] 
Drew51 wrote:
Quote:

I dont think that will be coming any time soon


Agreed, appears to be held hostage. I tried to help these guys, but what they want, and what skills I have don't match.
?

do they not just transfer the tapes ?

what more needs to be done ?
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