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Tracy Is A Snob and Emperor Of Ohio  
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velvetgrass
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Post 2008-06-19 01:39   [Quote] 
Everybody says that the YCDTOSA 6 tracks Tracy Is A Snob and Emperor Of Ohio are improvsations from 12/3/1980. I personally they are fragments of that conecrt's version of Pick Me I'm Clean. Some of the screams on those tracks are identical to the ones on the slow Pick Me I'm Clean Fall 1980 performances. What do you think?

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Zappa Penguin
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Post 2008-06-19 04:16   [Quote] 
The screams heard were, I believe (Pat would probably know for sure) a tape loop, and the tape loop was used mostly for the Torture Never Stops. You are right, however, inasmuch as the tape loop was also played during the December "Pick Me"s.

The 1980 bands had a habit of completely ditching the vamps for guitar solos and improvisation sections - so unless a tape of the Salt Lake City show manages to sneak out, we may never know for sure. Crying or Very sad
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pbuzby
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Post 2008-06-19 04:22   [Quote] 
My theory is that Tracy Is A Snob is from Torture, and that Emperor Of Ohio is from Pick Me.
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Drew51
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Post 2008-06-19 05:27   [Quote] 
Major saturation problems during Pick Me, and The Torture is incomplete.
City of Tiny lights...holy shit!
Two shows that day Smile
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bleachboy
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Post 2008-06-19 11:50   [Quote] 
But FZ sais in the inlay that chad wackerman wa the drummer. Was he at this time?

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pbuzby
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Post 2008-06-19 13:47   [Quote] 
No. All of the 1980 tracks on YCDTOSA 6 disc 1 wrongly list Scott Thunes (instead of Arthur Barrow) and Chad Wackerman (instead of Vinnie Colaiuta).
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bleachboy
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Post 2008-06-19 18:05   [Quote] 
Okay that's what I thought

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globual
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Post 2008-06-20 01:38   [Quote] 
pbuzby wrote:
My theory is that Tracy Is A Snob is from Torture


yeah, I buy this theory. The whole track is very reminiscent of Torture; the portion from 0:54 to 1:19 in particular makes you think FZ is about to burst into his typical Torture solo.

Don't know about Emperor Of Ohio. There's at least one other Emperor Of Ohio in circulation I can think of, on the September 15, 1978 Miami show, and there it occurs at the tail end of Little House I Used To Live In, following the solos and some assorted weirdness.

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pbuzby
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Post 2008-06-20 01:43   [Quote] 
I think there are drum solo/orgasm tape loop segments similar to Emperor Of Ohio on the Dec 5 and Dec 11 1980 versions of Pick Me I'm Clean.

Of course, we may have the Dec 3 tapes soon to check.
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Drew51
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Post 2008-06-20 03:50   [Quote] 
I'm just not that familar with The above mentioned songs, and in reviewing I heard nothing sounding Like Emperor of Ohio, I have heard that before, not here, certainly not in Pick me I'm Clean. Tracy Is A Snob, I have no idea what this is? If this is mentioned in the song it isn't here either. I have not listened to any of the Stage recordings in years. I'm always listening to new stuff. I just don't collect Zappa. I'm a huge jazz fan. I like all jazz, 3 to 400 hundred artists or so probably. Maybe concentrate on 100 or so. Then we have folk, Reggae, Bluegrass, Classical, chamber, comedy, and eveything inbetween. A huge Firesign Theater fan. Collector of the Fugs Too! A giant Steve Goodman fan. I got a mention in the Goodman Biography. I also collect certain speeches. Few CD's last very long in the player, too much to listen to, time to move to the next music. I count on you guys for the details. I'll just bring the goods Smile
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doublebassy
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Post 2008-06-20 19:11   [Quote] 
So Tracy Is A Snob turns out to be from the late show performance of The Torture Never Stops. My guess is that Emperor of Ohio comes from the same song, after the drum solo like in the Fort Collins show the day before.
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globual
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Post 2008-06-20 20:24   [Quote] 
doublebassy wrote:
So Tracy Is A Snob turns out to be from the late show performance of The Torture Never Stops. My guess is that Emperor of Ohio comes from the same song, after the drum solo like in the Fort Collins show the day before.


I wouldn't be surprised if you guessed it right. They just fit together like a glove if you splice them together. The orgasm tape loops Pat mentions above were utilized in both Pick Me I'm Clean and The Torture Never Stops, as it's well documented especially on the Santa Monica shows. It's hard to say whether a specific tape loop was assigned to each of these songs. Well, perhaps. Though notice that at one point, don't remember off the top of my head in which song this is, FZ goes "here she goes again" and turns his little machine on, which seem to suggest that parts of the same longer tape, possibly randomly selected, would have been played whenever FZ saw it fit. I am being speculative here, but in my view the fall 1980 Pick Me I'm Clean didn't develop into a monster song the way Torture did (though some performances, particularly those using the sex tape, move in that direction); whereas Torture consistently, from the opening shows of the tour, aims at being a monster song and so at incorporating all sorts of improvised, random weirdness, including quotes, into it, and so stylistically having the Emperor Of Ohio absurd little piece of tomfoolery would make sense more as part of Torture than Pick Me. As I said above, this is an entirely speculative train of thinking. So, let's get these Salt Lake City tapes out there and keep guessing.

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pbuzby
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Post 2008-06-20 21:26   [Quote] 
I just relistened to Emperor Of Ohio, and yes, it sounds like a Torture keyboard solo excerpt followed by Vinnie soloing and preparing the segue into Heavy Duty Judy. I also listened to parts of Pick Me from the SLC early show, and it has a short drum solo segment (2:52-3:23) but it is not the one on the YCDTOSA track.
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