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1978 10 31 Palladium NYC 230.28 AUD (BengoFury-KCDiscipline-fl-ZP) [ZTLS #300]
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Zappa Penguin
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Post 2008-01-22 00:35   [Quote] 
Frank Zappa
October 31st, 1978
The Palladium
New York City, NY


'Sup, guys, how about a little January Surprise? nothing too TERRIBLY mind-blowing here... just, you know, the longest show FZ ever played, and one of those pesky "must-have" shows in the FZShows oeuvre.

Seriously now, really and truly, what needs to be said about this one? Zappa, O'Hearn, Shankar, special guests, epic jams (Packard Goose - does anything more need to be said?), oftimes-bizarre rarities (dig that Idiot Bastard Son - the backing music sounding almost like Läther) and old standby favorites (probably the finest version of Watermelon in Easter Hay ever played live) all unite for nearly four hours of absolute magic.

Just to scratch the very surface of what's on offer here: we have twelve minutes of relative dead air (Ms. X and, even moreso, Nancy's Life Story). Bobby Brown is played. The bass on Easy Meat is really... out of tune. Those fifteen minutes combined are the lowpoint of the show.

The high point? If I had to choose just one (which, evidently, I do), I'd go with Packard Goose. Nearly twenty minutes of blisteringly intense soloing from both Zappa and Shankar which, were it not for the "recent" discovery of the final fifteen minutes of the show, would be easy to consider the "climax" (in a dramatic sense) of the night. Considering that, as I already mentioned, this show also features what may well be the finest Watermelon in Easter Hay ever performed before a live audience (as well as some positively sick soloing in other places), I think considering Packard Goose the highlight is saying something.

About that "recent" discovery hidden in that previous paragraph: Evidently there were two very-well-prepared tapers in the audience that night. One of them made his recording from the floor, the other from the balcony. I believe it's the balcony recording which has been in circulation since the 1980s, but someone may have to correct me. Anyway, the other recording didn't see wide circulation until sometime in the late 1990s (late 1998, to hear Foggy G tell it).

It had always irked me that this show was incomplete, especially when we knew a complete "patch" was out there. Of all the shows to be left in an incomplete condition, why this one!? Why the Big One? Of course, I devoted the next year or so of my life to bitching about this fact whenever remotely possible, until one day, from out of the blue, our very own flambay contacted me, with news that was not just exciting, but downright STARTLING.

Not only was this second source out there - this second source, containing nearly ten minutes of breath-taking Deathless Horsie jamming - but, in a development which I had completely forgotten about, it was a COMPLETE version of this second source. In other words, a version which could be used for - wait for it - PATCHES!

Yes, the original source of this show was a very nice sounding recording, but suffered from one major flaw: Of the four extended numbers (Pound, Little House, Packard, Black Napkins / Deathless), only one of them did not feature a tape-flip at some point. nothing more frustrating than hearing that delicious guitar slam kick off the solo section to Packard Goose, only to be yanked back to reality as the violin solo quickly fades out.

Well, okay, plenty of more frustrating things (tapes running out with no replacement, for instance), but still, tape cuts suck.

Long story short: Thanks to flambay, each and every tape cut has been patched with the alternate source, which sounds a bit darker (strangely devoid of ambience - maybe it's the balcony recording? Who knows!), and each and every minute has been speed corrected.

While there -may- be an even more superlative version out there (the patch source claims to be from a master recording, but shows clear signs of NR), this is still at the very least 95% "as good as it gets" (the main source being a probable second-gen), and sometimes - very, very rarely, but sometimes - the prospect of a little post-holiday surprise trumps Official Procedure.

For even more thoughts on this show ("the show of shows" itself!), or just something to get you even more psyched to get this little nugget downloaded, check out Foggy G's take right here, and if you still can't get enough, head on over to this entry on the sadly-defunct FZ tape Reviewer's Society. Just ignore all those words about tape-flips - none to be found here Very Happy

Band:
Frank Zappa - guitar, vocals
Patrick O'Hearn - bass, vocals
Arthur Barrow - bass, vocals
Denny Walley - slide guitar, vocals
Vinnie Colaiuta - drums, seal calls
Ed Mann - percussion
Tommy Mars - keyboards, vocals
Peter Wolf - keyboards

Guests:
L. Shankar - electric violin
Warren Cucurullo - monologue
Nancy - monologue


Setlist:
01. Ancient Armaments
02. Intro
03. Dancin' Fool
04. Easy Meat
05. Honey Don't You Want A Man Like Me?
06. Keep It Greasey
07. The Meek Shall Inherit nothing
08. City Of Tiny Lights
09. Pound For A Brown (tapeflip @ 2:53, patched with alt source)
10. Thirteen (main source resumes @ 0:26)
11. Ms. X
12. Nancy's Life Story
13. Dinah-Moe Humm
14. Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder
15. Little Rubber Girl (tapeflip @ 3:11, patched with alt source)
16. Idiot Bastard Son (main source resumes @ 0:04)
17. Bobby Brown
18. Conehead
19. Suicide Chump
20. Little House I Used To Live In (tapeflip @ 17:26, patched with alt source)
21. Watermelon In Easter Hay (main source resumes @ 0:11)
22. Preamble
23. Stinkfoot
24. Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance
25. Peaches En Regalia
26. Strictly Genteel
27. Sofa
28. Packard Goose (tapeflip @ 4:18-5:32, patched with alt source)
29. Magic Fingers
30. Don't Eat the Yellow Snow
31. Nanook Rubs It
32. St. Alphonso's Pancake Breakfast
33. Father O'Blivion
34. Rollo
35. Camarillo Brillo
36. Muffin Man
37. Black Napkins (cuts @ 5:44, patched with alt source)
38. The Deathless Horsie (all from alt source, clicks in last 0:05 or so)

Notes:
With L. Shankar on tracks 10, 18, 20-21, 24, 28, and 38.

Lineage:
Main source pre-fl/ZP:
Aud (unknown equipment) > low gen CrO2 cassettes > wav (CEP, tracked, speed corrected) > FLAC (Frontend with SBE correction)

Alt. source pre-fl/ZP:
Aud (unknown equipment) > ? > FLAC (one big mystery!)

ZP extra lineage:
> .FLAC Frontend (decoded to .WAV) > WavMerge (all tracks merged) > Wavelab (speed correction per flambay) > GoldWave (patches edited in) > CDWav (tracks split, saved as .FLAC level 8 ) > you, the listener

FFP:
Quote:
781031-NYC - 01 Ancient Armaments.flac:57c4c27d291b53512e9117cb467d363f
781031-NYC - 02 Intro.flac:d5ecec3e4f0ac04ac020ec9433634c54
781031-NYC - 03 Dancing Fool.flac:990f32fb7217c8ee8027ed949c8f80fb
781031-NYC - 04 Easy Meat.flac:6ca5130a892eff73ce1c34c7fd90a92f
781031-NYC - 05 Honey Don't You Want a Man Like Me.flac:490f55f44bc965aca17881898bf3dd6a
781031-NYC - 06 Keep it Greasey.flac:d126f118be75b44f67898b4926ba98da
781031-NYC - 07 The Meek Shall Inherit nothing.flac:48de2d3ab0a157cf337ebf9603ea984a
781031-NYC - 08 City of Tiny Lights.flac:790b72144f305181a593fb8df1c006de
781031-NYC - 09 Pound for a Brown.flac:e6eb147afe682853795eb43f0807e15e
781031-NYC - 10 Thirteen.flac:b21fa8a445c85c902ef6e766136fad77
781031-NYC - 11 Ms. X.flac:8385304e35865ff86390866037d6ccd5
781031-NYC - 12 Nancy's Life Story.flac:15a08d59a643f603446d94215cca8914
781031-NYC - 13 Dinah-Moe Humm.flac:b17ad1239fdf975ee3dc6660d19cedbd
781031-NYC - 14 Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder.flac:dfad40b800069294d04632f82bcabc0a
781031-NYC - 15 Little Rubber Girl.flac:69bb198f3010d382463962b2f437cd30
781031-NYC - 16 Idiot Bastard Son.flac:d051b41aa62819e1b7f05fbcf4e8c941
781031-NYC - 17 Bobby Brown.flac:2ebbdea80a290fda4acb6ad19c891c93
781031-NYC - 18 Conehead.flac:b484ab73a78b53da28c1706fa571946e
781031-NYC - 19 Suicide Chump.flac:00e5703ce7442b51089ba3cc3c82cb0b
781031-NYC - 20 Little House I Used to Live In.flac:efd8c0fdc4281ed8a3b44a48306c424b
781031-NYC - 21 Watermelon in Easter Hay.flac:6fe7184e7d6eb4fb3bd9daeaa5b3f51b
781031-NYC - 22 Preamble.flac:dfddd04d74f7045836e6b23ba7aeb94a
781031-NYC - 23 Stinkfoot.flac:ed0bfe7d07046da446272b1358776580
781031-NYC - 24 Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance.flac:cf82a109f7634b110593920442960d9b
781031-NYC - 25 Peaches En Regalia.flac:8a3f38b5bf902db55e609b2c9f59ea1d
781031-NYC - 26 Strictly Genteel.flac:5744abcfbe4e51ffee7cca5683857643
781031-NYC - 27 Sofa.flac:cb66584d2158dcfc4b510590d5eaa2b3
781031-NYC - 28 Packard Goose.flac:d3ca33a7046b8b54c7f70b062341c83b
781031-NYC - 29 Magic Fingers.flac:7c6dad40d7b5ff886e33d3cfc56c6f18
781031-NYC - 30 Don't Eat the Yellow Snow.flac:e756f8b84b87b2011b3f564599b31f47
781031-NYC - 31 Nanook Rubs It.flac:caf7f5e0eba5b71379087fe2eaa43b09
781031-NYC - 32 St. Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast.flac:e3715c605e01c7bb701fbf3c7de8cc83
781031-NYC - 33 Father O'Blivion.flac:dc2e4d8db16ace3fdef4b1bf17e30b71
781031-NYC - 34 Rollo.flac:b61a40362a132a22b349a77794daba2d
781031-NYC - 35 Camarillo Brillo.flac:cc07d666e5c9c2444de6727903f0b14d
781031-NYC - 36 Muffin Man.flac:ea636fb51dfdc3c456cb098f1a63b715
781031-NYC - 37 Black Napkins.flac:6715503c46ea13033054742167c38057
781031-NYC - 38 The Deathless Horsie.flac:e866c76185cc137ad5c8e73f5e38a6e4


Pitch:
Quote:
01 Armament - 07 COTL: +20cts
08 Pound For A Brown: +25cts
(tf)
09 Thirteen - 12 Dinah Moe: +20cts
13 Shoulder~Rubber Girl: +25cts
(tf)
14 Bastard Son - 15 Bobby Brown: +30cts
16 Conehead: +25cts
17 Suicide Chump: +20cts
18 Little House: +30cts
(tf) - Actually the tape flip cut is at about 1.5 secs into Watermelon, you can hear Ed Mann playing the first note of it right before the tf cut.
19 Watermelon - 21 TYCOWYD: +30cts
22 Peaches - 23 Strictly Genteel: +35cts
24 Sofa: +30cts
25 Packard Goose (before tf): +30cts, +25cts after vocals ending
Marker best set at first guitar "slam" (~3:10)
(tf)
25 Packard Goose cont.(after tf): solo part +10cts,
theme reprise & out-chorus (final ~2:20) +20cts
26 Magic F.-27 Yellow Snow Suite: +20cts
28 Camarillo - 30 Black Napkins: +10cts


Request:
Do not sell or redistribute this recording in any "for-profit" sense. Audience recordings are good. Bootlegs are bad.

Torrented to http://www.zappateers.com/bb on Jan. 21st 2008 by ZP
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Timezone
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Post 2008-01-22 00:48   [Quote] 
I was there, Yeeeaaaah. It was great , I didn't dress up that year or maybe I did. But the felt Forum Halloween show I was the Invisable Man , Great times... Great tunes, Thanks for this.
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pbuzby
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Post 2008-01-22 01:03   [Quote] 
Thanks. It'll be nice to junk my personal patch that used a shrill, probably MN-sourced Napkins/Deathless (and didn't address the other tapeflips).
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joe555
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Post 2008-01-22 01:06   [Quote] 
It's nice when "The Big One" gets bigger! Thank you!!!
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Zappa Penguin
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Post 2008-01-22 01:10   [Quote] 
pbuzby wrote:
Thanks. It'll be nice to junk my personal patch that used a shrill, probably MN-sourced Napkins/Deathless (and didn't address the other tapeflips).

I'm pretty sure I've heard a similar patching on mp3. While the patches here are better, they still sound... odd. very dry, similar to the Canada 68/69 stage recordings. It'd be interesting to hear what the actual master is like.
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Alex231
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Post 2008-01-22 01:30   [Quote] 
Nice work, thank you! No Bullshit

(
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jimi
Joined: 2006-10-28
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Post 2008-01-22 01:48   [Quote] 
bravo

thanks so very much to everyone involved
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mike comisky
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Post 2008-01-22 02:10   [Quote] 
"The Big One" just got better. Thank you for all this work. Incredible. And Alex231 - CONGRATS!!! The Giants rule! At least for another 2 weeks.....should be a great Super Bowl, but the hype is always tough to live up to. No matter what, the Giants have been amazing the last 4 weeks. Ooops, this is an FZ site, right? Thank you thank you thank you Zappa Penguin!!!!!

yours in FZ,
mike
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DLHotch
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Post 2008-01-22 02:31   [Quote] 
Zappa Penguin wrote:
Lineage:
Main source pre-fl/ZP:
Aud (unknown equipment) > low gen CrO2 cassettes > wav (CEP, tracked, speed corrected) > FLAC (Frontend with SBE correction)

Alt. source pre-fl/ZP:
Aud (unknown equipment) > ? > FLAC (one big mystery!)


So, according to the lineages you quoted, the main source is a bengofury tape rip and the alt. source is from kcdiscipline? Funny, in the longest text for the longest show I never found original seeder credits. Otherwise, it's about time someone played around with this show since I never got around to it.

Oh, and: Go Giants! Kitchenaire's grin

Later: The credits are indeed in the show's title, I guess I should have looked again, my apologies


Last edited by DLHotch on 2008-01-22 07:59; edited 1 time in total
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franklinger
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Post 2008-01-22 03:30   [Quote] 
thx alot for that coincidence.
2 days ago i patched this show with mp3-parts (but forgot Packard Goose).
so no need for me to patch that forgotton part.
but...
even without those 50sec. PG patch, i've got a 231.31min. show, although the mp3
runs a bit to fast.

thx again, looking forward to hear it...
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chuckspinach
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Post 2008-01-22 03:38   [Quote] 
[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]

One of my favorite shows... Thanks to all involved.

Of course I bought the DVD-A the second it came out, but I was crushed (not unlike so many boxes) when I realized that they left off all my favorite bits (particularly Packard Goose)...

L. Shankar is now (?) calling himself "Shenkar":

http://www.myspace.com/shenkarworld

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Zappa Penguin
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Post 2008-01-22 03:41   [Quote] 
DLHotch wrote:
So, according to the lineages you quoted, the main source is a bengofury tape rip and the alt. source is from kcdiscipline? Funny, in the longest text for the longest show I never found original seeder credits. Otherwise, it's about time someone played around with this show since I never got around to it.


Yep - the notes are formatted strangely, but they confirm it. I included them in the torrent, but so nobody has to wait, I'll repost them:

Quote:
Frank Zappa
1978-10-31
The Palladium, NYC, NY
A-/B+
Approx 1.13 GB plus this file

Disc 1:

Opening Solo
Dancin' Fool
Easy Meat
Honey Don't You Want A Man Like Me?
Keep It Greasy
The Meek Shall Inherit nothing
City of Tiny Lites
Pound For A Brown
Warren's Story
Nancy's Story

Disc 2:

Dinah-Moe Humm
Go Cry On Somebody Else's Shoulder
Little Rubber Girl
Idiot Bastard Son
Bobby Brown
Conehead
Suicide Chump
Little House I Used To Live In
Watermellon In Easter Hay
Stinkfoot

Disc 3:

Take Off Your Clothes When You Dance
Peaches III
Strictly Genteel
Sofa #2
Packard Goose
Magic Fingers
Yellow Snow Suite
Camarillio Brillo
Muffin Man
Black Napkins
The Deathless Horsie

Notes:

I believe this is the whole show. I recently acquired this in a trade from a Zappa collector who claimed this was a new source. To me, it sounds like the balcony recording (B+) is patched in some places in the show while the rest of it is a floor recording (A-/A). Both sources are from the master tapes, so I'm told. This is the holy grail of Zappa shows, and I hope you folks enjoy it. For more information, check out Jon Naurin's page on the Halloween 1978 run. Here's the link: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/home...stew/bigone.htm (although he says the show lasted 3 hrs and 45 min, I lean towards believing it was actually 2 hrs 45 min since the entire show fits on three 80 minute CDRs with close to no cuts.

Also, this is all the info I have on this show and source...so please, no on email me or pm me and ask me all sorts of questions about source and whatnot. I can give only opinions on song versions and sound quality.

Enjoy!

Mike (kcdiscipline)
April 23, 2004

PS--to all of those who have waited so long (Colston, thanks for nagging the crap outta me to get this seeded!), sorry for the wait. It's tough to do this


(it's the same file I downloaded from you a couple hours ago, if you check your queue history - and thank you for it TDK-wink )

DLHotch wrote:
Oh, and: Go Giants! Kitchenaire's grin


I think I'll have to keep my Super Sunday allegiances to myself, lest I get publically lynched Razz

franklinger wrote:
even without those 50sec. PG patch, i've got a 231.31min. show, although the mp3 runs a bit to fast.


It's probably the same length as this - everything here was brought up in speed a bit, so the original would be a bit longer in length.
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fadel
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Post 2008-01-22 04:12   [Quote] 
         
         
         
.                                                                                           grouphug
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music014                                                                                                                                             Zappateers!
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Ferval Lankman
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Post 2008-01-22 04:29   [Quote] 
chuckspinach wrote:
L. Shankar is now (?) calling himself "Shenkar"

That's just plain odd. I was hoping he'd defer to FZ and start calling himself Larry.

kcdiscipline wrote:
I lean towards believing it was actually 2 hrs 45 min since the entire show fits on three 80 minute CDRs with close to no cuts.

Hmmm... 3 x 80 = 240 ÷ 60 = 4

Damn that new math. Very Happy

And finally, from the Goes Without Saying department: you the Manguin. Can't freakin' wait to crank this one up on the office speakers in the morning (and into the afternoon).


Last edited by Ferval Lankman on 2008-01-22 06:04; edited 1 time in total
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deadegad
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Post 2008-01-22 05:47   [Quote] 
Thank, thank you, thank you for putting this together for us. Fantastic.
Did I say thank you?
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