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Marc Ziegenhagen Midi Sequencing and Live Performances circa 1989 (rubbershirt)
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Zappamaniac
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Post 2015-12-06 03:08   [Quote] 
This is Envelopes/Little House solo version (same version as seed but more tape hiss) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm5budms4jU

This is Black Page solo version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXxeOvvNNwc

You know Marc better than me, of course, but 1. the piano sound is the same 2. the ambience is the same 3. the voices at the end are neither Tommy Mars nor Peter Wolf.

Just sayin'

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yetanother
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Post 2015-12-06 15:51   [Quote] 
Zappamaniac wrote:
What does he do now BTW?

https://soundcloud.com/paranoid-dandroid

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rubbershirt
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Post 2015-12-06 23:33   [Quote] 
Zappamaniac wrote:
This is Envelopes/Little House solo version (same version as seed but more tape hiss) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm5budms4jU

This is Black Page solo version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXxeOvvNNwc

You know Marc better than me, of course, but 1. the piano sound is the same 2. the ambience is the same 3. the voices at the end are neither Tommy Mars nor Peter Wolf.

Just sayin'


Lesson 1 for Rubbershirt: Don't trust your memory. Lesson 2: Don't make assumptions. Yes it is Marc. We traded a ton of this kind of stuff but I don't remember ever having this. My bad. Marc says "LOL, yah that's me. If there's any doubt, that's my laugh at the end before the 'go hawaiian' line - the voice who says "sensitive ending - I'm crying" is Tony, the engineer. This was done at Berklee the same session as Envelopes/Little House. Circa 1989."

Perhaps he'll show up here now that were talking about him.
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yetanother
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Post 2015-12-07 09:55   [Quote] 
chuck wrote:
yetanother's idea is pretty good, that would be worth donating to for Sinister Footwear until some orchestra finally does a proper performance. Just how much would that cost though?

Finding out how much it would cost is the easy part, paying for it is the hard one. (Not to mention the score obviously has tons of copying mistakes, so it would demand a good deal of revising work.)

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Post 2015-12-07 20:54   [Quote] 
Thanks for this.
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franktomatozappa
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Post 2020-01-20 23:57   [Quote] 
yetanother wrote:
chuck wrote:
yetanother's idea is pretty good, that would be worth donating to for Sinister Footwear until some orchestra finally does a proper performance. Just how much would that cost though?

Finding out how much it would cost is the easy part, paying for it is the hard one. (Not to mention the score obviously has tons of copying mistakes, so it would demand a good deal of revising work.)


And let's bring up this idea again circa 2020. Just for a ballpark / placeholder figure would USD5000 do it? How many of us out there would give a hundred bucks each? Just wonderin'... imslow
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yetanother
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Post 2020-01-24 22:38   [Quote] 
franktomatozappa wrote:
Just for a ballpark / placeholder figure would USD5000 do it?

For hiring 100 musicians, a conductor, a recording crew and tons of expensive equipment? Not even in a fourth-world country.

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Twilkes
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Post 2020-05-23 08:23   [Quote] 
Could someone who knows the piece/score let me know where the section breaks are?

Part 1 is obvious where it finishes, and Part 2 starts with the Them Or Us music. Then there is some beautiful music which I assume is also part of Part 2.

Then there is the first arpeggio of Part 2 again and some more meandering music - on the Berkeley performance I always thought this was part of the improv but it also appears in this MIDI sequence so must have been in the score. Is this also Part 2, so Part 2 in effect is made up of three different sections?
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rubbershirt
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Post 2020-05-23 20:27   [Quote] 
This is an interesting question. I’ll try and look at the score when I have a little time
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Twilkes
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Post 2020-05-23 20:36   [Quote] 
rubbershirt wrote:
This is an interesting question. I’ll try and look at the score when I have a little time


That would be great thank you. It would be useful if you could relate minutes and seconds to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNyj_4n_prs when talking about the score, it's easier than trying to describe what the music sounds like. :)

And also at what point the score stops and the orchestra improv/time-filling starts.
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yetanother
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Post 2020-05-24 16:45   [Quote] 
Twilkes wrote:
It would be useful if you could relate minutes and seconds to this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNyj_4n_prs when talking about the score

00:00 - first movement
09:08 - second movement
20:56 - end of second movement/beginning of improvisation
25:26 - third movement
30:26 - end of third movement

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Twilkes
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Post 2020-05-25 10:02   [Quote] 
Thanks for that. Listening to both versions again, the character of the whole piece is great, but it does meander for me in parts and there is not much to tie all of it together, as opposed to Mo & Herb's Vacation which has a lot of thematic material restated in different ways.

I love the first half of Part 2 but the second half loses a bit of direction, the tuplets make the melodies feel a bit aimless; the second part of Part 2 (13m48s in the Berkeley youtube link above, after the Them Or Us music) is up there with any other FZ orchestral music that was released, but the third part of Part 2 (17m28s onwards) sounds like filler to me, I wouldn't be upset if that whole bit was skipped and it went straight to Part 3. Which I prefer as a guitar solo but maybe that's because neither performance sounds as good as the original solo did.

I would still pay £BIG for a ticket to hear an orchestra perform it all though. :)

nb I've been in touch with someone who is working up a solo-guitar-plus-backing version of the whole suite, based on the orchestral score - no idea of their ability but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't take this on if they didn't have the chops! Will try to keep in touch with him to see how he gets on, he's been working on it for a year or so but will likely record it at some point.
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yetanother
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Post 2020-05-26 17:19   [Quote] 
Twilkes wrote:
Listening to both versions again, the character of the whole piece is great, but it does meander for me in parts and there is not much to tie all of it together

It does meander a bit, yes. In my opinion it is one of FZ's weakest orchestral pieces, despite the grandiosity of it all. But we also need to remember that it was meant as a ballet - there is a story that actually ties it together that we don't get to see if all we have is the recording.

What you refer to as "third part of part 2" is actually "Pre-C Instruments", a solo drum confrontation piece that FZ ended up adapting into the ballet... so your impression that it "sounds like filler" may not be that far off. The real filler, however, is the third movement. It has no action per se (just a series of static poses), no musical relation to any of what was heard up to that point, doesn't add anything to the story (which is already over by then), and seems to serve merely as a weird kind of "danse generale" for the entire staff to get together on stage one last time. I think FZ just really wanted to turn that solo into an orchestral piece and used the ballet as a pretext.

So, given how much unrelated, previously composed material he incorporated into all three movements, it's no wonder that it sounds like a patchwork kind of job.

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Twilkes
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Post 2020-05-29 17:16   [Quote] 
Yeah that makes sense, especially the third movement. A shame as there is a lot of good stuff in the first movement which could have made a good solid composition if it had been used in a similar way to Mo & Herb's Vacation, which I believe also had little if any material shared between the first and second movements (which were both well structured on their own terms) but had the third movement as a barrage of everything that had gone before. I honestly think Mo & Herb's could hold its own on a concert programme with any other modern or historical composition from any composer, it's a shame it's so technical to play and so rarely performed.

(and I found this outrageous cover of the original 3rd movement guitar solo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKbQ40F0Sgk)
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