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Any Hindu Zappa fans here?  
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McMick
Joined: 2015-06-26
Posts: 161
Post 2020-02-10 13:07   [Quote] 
I know it's a strange question to ask, but I've recently started getting into old Bollywood music from the '50s and '60s and some of it is pretty great. A lot of it is just pop with an Indian twist but some of it is really quite complex and beautiful. What I was hoping to find is someone who can guide me to the most rhythmically and vocally complex songs (particularly featuring female singers), so I can get to the good stuff without having to dig through playlist after playlist of songs on Youtube to find it. I'm not all that interested in lyrics, since I don't speak Hindi. Mostly it's the music itself. Thanks for any help. Here are a couple of examples:

Kuhu Kuhu Bole Koyaliya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj42uTal7AY

Hansta Hua Noorani Chehra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akU5giy-7MQ

GOOD STUFF

P.S. I got into this stuff via Laxmi Chaya, a Bollywood film star whose performance in a movie was briefly shown in the 2001 film "Ghost World". Her dancing was pretty cute so I Youtubed her and it was all downhill from there (until I hit the vast ocean of playlists).

And by the way, why am I posting in this forum? Because I know everyone here has EXCELLENT musical taste.

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cookie_manager
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Joined: 2007-12-20
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Post 2020-02-10 21:39   [Quote] 
Thanks, I found in particular the 2nd one, the orchestral one, quite amazing.

I vaguely sense that this music has an enormous richness in sound nuances I don't even know exist.

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oofers
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Post 2020-02-11 01:54   [Quote] 
cookie_manager wrote:
I vaguely sense that this music has an enormous richness in sound nuances I don't even know exist.

As a drummer, I'm sure you can make more sense of Konnakol than me. I once had a DVD of John McLaughlin explaining it, but I couldn't get past the mouth dexterity needed to pull it off. And unless I'm mistaken, you really need to be able to "sing" it before it spills over into your playing, of which McLaughlin is clearly an exemplar.
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cookie_manager
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Post 2020-02-11 10:54   [Quote] 
What I more had in mind was those metrical irregularities the whole orchestra executes - that's beyond counting or scatting a rhythm - , or those little twists in the intonation.

I hear there is something special going on, and I guess if you learn to play this music, there's a lot of little variations that are an item for you to learn, that have a specific name, are a thing to be trained and individually shaped over years, maybe passed over to the next generation merely aurally. That's at least how I imagine things to be here.

It's partly similar of course with jazz or classical music, but this indian stuff seems so different in content.

Some while ago I spent a few days in Moscow, and I asked the mum of a drum student of mine to tell me a few russian words. Only when trying to form certain sounds with my mouth (failing) I recognised what speech nuances there are I never recognised before.

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2020-02-11 11:44   [Quote] 
you may find this helpful... TALA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tala_(music)
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Mr_Green_Genes
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Joined: 2006-03-15
Posts: 511
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Post 2020-02-11 14:27   [Quote] 
Fusion stuff from Ravi Shankar, from the Celebration box-set produced by George Harrison:

West Eats Meat (with amazing playing by Patrick O'Hearn)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP34XITHZ-k

Dispute and violence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc1elpnN128

Fire Night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M_Yfp-TkDY

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Ob
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Post 2020-02-11 22:57   [Quote] 
Shut Up and Play Yer Sitar

(Currently falling down the youtube rabbit hole - thanks McMick)

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brainpang
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Joined: 2007-02-01
Posts: 3239
Post 2020-02-12 19:06   [Quote] 
I've poked aroud in the past but the rhythms don't agree with my system.
That said, I've attended a couple East Indian parties over the years and the
DJ music was fantastic. Swirling and thumping, getting downright psychedelic
at times. Add the colorful, flowing saris and the joke about an excess of food
at Indian events and I had the best time ever. I left with huge bags full of to-go
containers that fed the family for a week.
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zeeker
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Post 2020-02-13 02:20   [Quote] 
Given the conversation here, I thought some of you might enjoy the linguistical density of this karaoke konnakol version of The Black Page #1 by Henrik Anderson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMMcEluRs8
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StatusBaby
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Joined: 2004-06-28
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Post 2020-02-14 21:56   [Quote] 
zeeker wrote:
Given the conversation here, I thought some of you might enjoy the linguistical density of this karaoke konnakol version of The Black Page #1 by Henrik Anderson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMMcEluRs8


Love it

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McMick
Joined: 2015-06-26
Posts: 161
Post 2020-02-16 04:46   [Quote] 
Well, I've learned a thing or two since I posted this. In the first example "Kuhu Kuhu Bole Koyaliya" you can hear them singing in a rapid rhythmic pattern which is echoed by the music. The words they are saying are apparently the words for the actual notes they sing. Like our do-re-mi system, but obviously far more widely used in their music. They apparently call the scale "Svara". Wikipedia says:

"The seven notes of the musical scale in Indian classical music are shadaj (षड्ज), rishabh (ऋषभ), gandhar (गान्धार), madhyam (मध्यम), pancham (पञ्चम), dhaivat (धैवत) and nishad (निषाद). These seven swaras are shortened to Sa, Re (Carnatic) (Hindustani), Ga, Ma, Pa, Dha, and Ni.[5] Collectively these notes are known as the sargam (the word is an acronym of the consonants of the first four swaras). Sargam is the Indian equivalent to solfege, a technique for the teaching of sight-singing. The tone Sa is, as in Western moveable-Do solfège, the tonic of a piece or scale."

I've heard numerous examples of this and it seems to be a mainstay feature in "filmi" music (a general name for Bollywood songs, from films, which according to Wikipedia comprise about 75 percent of popular music in India). It shares features with Konnakol, it would seem. But since I've only just now even heard of Konnakol, I might be mistaken. Maybe it's more like scat singing in western music.

Anyhooooo, I have noticed that many of the rhythms in songs from the 50s and 60s have licks that I've only heard in modern hip-hop or rap, and they did this stuff 50 years beforehand, so hats off to them!

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polydigm
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Post 2020-02-16 09:33   [Quote] 
That Konnakol version of Black Page is nuts, I really like it.

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