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HELP!! 0.01 Share Ratio. Seriously, that's not right. Ask me for seeds.
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Ro-Ro
Joined: 2018-12-12
Posts: 21
Location: Delaware
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Post 2019-11-08 05:05   [Quote] 
Over the years I have gone through most of the FZ Shows forum page by page and downloaded everything available, lately on my phone.

Thank you all.

The problem is I have no way to give back. I was the only leech for most of these shows recently (especially once you get past page one) so there was rarely anyone else to share with thus my poor but unavoidable ratio.

I've been out of work for most of this year so donating is out for now. Also the Zappateers T-shirt and hoodie will both have to wait. Maybe that bastard Santa will bring them unless he's a Zappateer and sees this post in which case I'll be getting another lump of coal. I wish I had a stove to burn them in to heat my house but alas all I can do is add it to the pile and sit on them. Making diamonds is slow work believe you me.

I have access to my friends' wifi most weekdays while there framing their basement and will be bringing my craptop and hard drive to seed the Orphanz starting tomorrow.

In a fruitless effort to let the Orphanz know to not give up and keep their clients open I tried several times to PM Zappateer jojo_at_zilch to say I would be doing this for the shows he needs but this buggy site won't allow it. Some "debug mode" error or something. I did manage to reply in the original posts what I was doing but the Orphanz probably won't see that. Maybe another member will and jump on as well. Great, I'm selfish so I'm doing this to benefit myself with a less shameful ratio. I don't like to be given anything I would prefer to earn it.

And if I sound critical of the way this site works then good. I don't settle. As a framer I hold myself to a higher standard or people get hurt. I have achieved what no programmer will ever be capable of. What I've built will stand and work flawlessly for more than a century. If you've ever heard of This Old House then you'll know it can even last far, far longer with simple maintenance.

Just to write this post I had to open a text app on my phone because after a few lines it started overlapping the Preview and Submit buttons and then disappeared because I couldn't scroll down. I can send you a screen capture if you like.

So yeah, if I sound critical it's because I am frustrated by what I have experienced here. We have a rule with an easy to remember acronym, K. I. S. S. Keep It Simple Stupid. Trust me it works. On the wall at a cabinet shop I used to work in someone before had written, "Experience is a brutal teacher but by god you'll learn." I wish I could say that applied to the digital realm but everyone who has replaced their computers and cell phones repeatedly like me knows it doesn't. It's called Planned Obsolescence so it doesn't matter if it doesn't work because you'll just buy the next iPhone because the screen is 1/4" bigger than this year's model.

The overall convenience of the digital world masks most of these issues. I did learn coding basics in fourth grade back in the mid-Seventies so I know how easy it is to get right. Or wrong if that's your preference.

Now having bitten the hand that feeds me I expect this post to be pulled and a strictly worded admonition to be forthcoming from the Moderators. Trust me I know from experience (see above) they don't like their magnanimous beneficence exposed for it's shortcomings. Too bad. I prefer to vent my frustrations with the modern world with words unlike XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Like Jimmy Carl Black, I'm the Indian of this group.

I didn't start this to be a rant but I feel better now so I don't really care if you do not.

I will also start going through the requests for reseeds and see which ones I can fulfill. I would do that now by my brand new Lenovo computer is frozen solid so I have to wait until the battery drains completely to restart it (once again, see above).

LEECHERS & ORPHANZ:
If there are shows you want ask me if I have it. If you like I can even send you screen captures of what's on my hard drive to pick through.

My email is umrkeast@gmail.com

I would say PM me but again I refer you to the above.

Hugs & Kisses, Bitches,
Roman
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TPS
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Post 2019-11-08 10:21   [Quote] 
I have removed the political text from your post.
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Ro-Ro
Joined: 2018-12-12
Posts: 21
Location: Delaware
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Post 2019-11-08 10:35   [Quote] 
Thanks for keeping the world safe for the Kardashians. I know Frank Zappa would appreciate that. Have you ever heard of him?

Roman
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drdork
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Joined: 2008-04-05
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Post 2019-11-08 11:51   [Quote] 
Ro-Ro wrote:
In a fruitless effort to let the Orphanz know to not give up and keep their clients open I tried several times to PM Zappateer jojo_at_zilch to say I would be doing this for the shows he needs but this buggy site won't allow it.

jojo_at_zilch is not an orphan. He is a stanley.

W. S. Gilbert wrote:
Mabel. Oh, Frederic, cannot you, in the calm excellence of your wisdom, reconcile it with your conscience to say something that will relieve my father’s sorrow?

Frederic. I will try, dear Mabel. But why does he sit, night after night, in this draughty old ruin?

General. Why do I sit here? To escape from the pirates’ clutches, I described myself as an orphan; and, heaven help me, I am no orphan! I come here to humble myself before the tombs of my ancestors, and to implore their pardon for having brought dishonour on the family escutcheon.
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Ro-Ro
Joined: 2018-12-12
Posts: 21
Location: Delaware
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Post 2019-11-08 12:15   [Quote] 
I would like to say that I like your Canuckian sense of humor/humour(?) but I don't think I understand it. In your example if jojo_at_zilch is Stanley (sorry to correct you but we capitalize the initial letter of proper names here in the colonies) does that make me Frederic? Or Mabel? Sorry but as a man I've never seen The Pirates of Penzance on Broadway so I know nothing of that reference. I have however seen The Pirates of Hot Pants on pay-per-view and I can highly recommend it. Two thumbs way up!

Roman
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drdork
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Post 2019-11-08 13:58   [Quote] 
Ro-Ro wrote:
Sorry but as a man I've never seen The Pirates of Penzance on Broadway so I know nothing of that reference.

Major General Stanley knows that the pirates spare anyone who's an orphan. So he claims to be an orphan and is released.

Ro-Ro wrote:
In your example if jojo_at_zilch is Stanley (sorry to correct you but we capitalize the initial letter of proper names here in the colonies)

jojo_at_zilch is not (a person named) Stanley; he is a stanley (common noun derived from a proper noun—like quisling or boycott). That's my term for someone who, like Major General Stanley, pretends to be an orphan.

The traditional type of stanley intentionally downloads only some of the files in a torrent (a particular song they're interested in, or all but the unpatched folder, or in the most extreme cases all but the text file) and then leaves the torrent open in their client. They show up as a leecher, but they've set their client not to download the rest of the files in the torrent, so no matter how many seeders show up to help them out, they'll never complete the download and be listed as a seeder.

For example, jojo_at_zilch only wants 81% of 1988 02 13 Upper Darby PA 131.48 AUD 1st (koolstrike-flambay) - Source #1. That's everything but the unpatched folder.

There's another type of stanley that has appeared in recent months. They show up as having downloaded all the megabytes of the torrent but as having 0% of it. I have no idea how this happens.

Ro-Ro wrote:
does that make me Frederic? Or Mabel?

No. The metaphor does not extend to any other characters beyond the major general.

Ro-Ro wrote:
I have however seen The Pirates of Hot Pants on pay-per-view and I can highly recommend it. Two thumbs way up!

Way up what?
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TPS
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Joined: 2005-02-26
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Post 2019-11-08 14:08   [Quote] 
There is not a lot we can do about tracker or web site issues. The guy who intigrated the tracker into the the version of phpBB we are stuck with is long gone. We certainly don't have funds to get a professional rewrite, nor have members with sufficient knowledge and free time to do this. Mobile phones were only for making phone calls at that time. The good news is that ratios were created when we all used 9.6k modems. They are almost irrelevant today. That Ro-Ro cares enough to post his concern probably means more to the community than some three digit stats.

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Ro-Ro
Joined: 2018-12-12
Posts: 21
Location: Delaware
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Post 2019-11-08 14:48   [Quote] 
I do appreciate the work, time and expense which is why I started with a thank you. I also stated, "Over the years..." because I had my original account more than 7 years ago and even back then I couldn't get a good ratio, here or anywhere. And yeah it was FIOS but you still pay for bandwidth and like I said I don't like to be given anything.

It turned into venting because what started as a simple message cost me 3 hours and missing most of a great Raiders win by the time I posted the original post. God that sentence ended terribly but I haven't slept and I think one brain cell has gone to bed so the other tends to get lonely.

And I knew nothing of the stanley situation because I've always just downloaded the entire seed and once done seeding deleted whatever I might not find a need for. So if I reseed a torrent you may not get that shntool file I don't know what to do with.

The funky new stanleys may be downloading with their phones. I wasn't allowed to join the Trader's Den I believe it was because I was using my phone and the administrator said it couldn't upload. I don't do tech for a living but I do know that if you can use your phone to get all your cat videos onto YouTube then it is capable of uploading and I have had torrents with plus share ratios. But as I said I'm not an expert I just play one on TV.

And finally, way up you know what. Like I said, highly recommended.

Roman
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PaulusS
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Joined: 2005-02-12
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Post 2019-11-08 18:16   [Quote] 
I'm also guessing that seeding 7 years after the original request as for 1978 08 XX #1 Culver City CA Rehearsals 62.50 Studio 2nd (jaypfunk & robsam-doctorzap) samples (http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=24208) does not help you with your ratio...

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Ro-Ro
Joined: 2018-12-12
Posts: 21
Location: Delaware
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Post 2019-11-08 23:53   [Quote] 
What actually doesn't help my ratio is samples. As I said I went through the FZ Shows page by page. I also hit up the Captain and have less than a dozen post '88 shows. I'll post screen caps which will show what I have.

Well my first day of reseeding was a bust. I doubt anyone got anything because the WIFI is poor in the basement. I'll leave the craptop upstairs next week. Live and learn (see above). Also I'll post screencaps of what I have for the curious and/or needy.

Roman
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Zappa Penguin
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Joined: 2006-01-06
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Post 2019-11-09 22:33   [Quote] 
PaulusS wrote:
I'm also guessing that seeding 7 years after the original request as for 1978 08 XX #1 Culver City CA Rehearsals 62.50 Studio 2nd (jaypfunk & robsam-doctorzap) samples (http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=24208) does not help you with your ratio...

Extended seeding would never hurt someone's ratio.

TPS wrote:
The good news is that ratios were created when we all used 9.6k modems. They are almost irrelevant today.

Wellllll.... just to get pedantic (Very Happy), 9600b/s modems were 1980s tech, and 14.4k was pretty much the standard by the time the web started up in the early 90s.

By the time the web started becoming a common home-user thing, you had the alpha-nerds prancing around with their 28.8k (or 33.6k - HEAVENS!) modems.

56.6k was the final gasp of dial-up, and this was when BitTorrent (and with it, ratios) was constructed.

Anyway, pedantry aside, this is pretty spot-on - and, likewise, seeding "limits" (only being allowed to seed x number of torrents at a time) are an ancient, outdated concept, from the days where many people were still on dialup, and broadband upload speeds were a fraction of what even the most basic plan allows. In those days, it might be frustrating trying to leech a show seeded by one guy with 40KB/sec of upload divided between a hundred different seeds.

Ro-Ro wrote:
And I knew nothing of the stanley situation because I've always just downloaded the entire seed and once done seeding deleted whatever I might not find a need for. So if I reseed a torrent you may not get that shntool file I don't know what to do with.

It might improve your ratio situation if you seeded in perpetuity - saying "once done seeding" leads me to believe that maybe your torrent client is configured to "seed to 1.0" (i.e., if you download a 500MB torrent, seed until you've sent 500MB of data - a 1:1 ratio). I'd recommend disabling this option - this way you can rack up the upload on new fresh torrents with lots of leechers.

But yes, what TPS says is correct - these days, as a general rule of thumb, we're far more concerned with "making an effort" than raw numbers.

(and shntool is to verify the integrity of the files you downloaded - it's useful as a "later on down the line" thing, after copying your files across multiple hard drives / optical media / etc. Fingerprint files can be thought of, in a simplified sense, as taking every 1,000th letter of a book. If you have a copy of a book, and write down every 1,000th letter, and compare it to my list of every 1,000th letter of the original book, and both our lists are the same, it's exceedingly likely we have the same, undamaged book. If your copy is missing a page, it's likewise very unlikely that our lists will be the same. The shntool file (with an extension of .md5 or .ffp) is (again, using our simplified metaphor) a list of every 1,000th letter of the .FLAC files, so later on you can compare your files to this list and verify that they're okay)
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Ro-Ro
Joined: 2018-12-12
Posts: 21
Location: Delaware
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Post 2019-11-10 19:27   [Quote] 
As I mentioned, I'm using my friends' WIFI when I am at their house working. So don't compare me to your situation at home. Yes optimally I would just download a torrent to a drive that would allow me to just leave it open in place for anyone anytime to get as they need.

When I was referring to myself seeding it was years ago when I still had FIOS but even then torrents would die out after a while. If you don't believe me read this forum. I don't know if any client is capable of having 2-4 thousand torrents open at any given time. I do know that my craptop has trouble just opening a folder if it has more than 100 files in it. I don't know if that's due to a lack of memory (4GB) or the proficiency of Windows 10 to harken back to the glory daze of Vista. Or maybe it's innate to the lazy, Slavic squirrels running the wheels inside a Lenovo.

And trust me I've learned from experience (see above again) to verify files every time I move them. I use FFPs constantly. What I don't see a use for is the file labeled "shntool" that comes with some torrent folders. Maybe more of a Dead relic than FZ it has no magical ability to verify anything that I know of.

And maybe someone can explain why the Zappa torrents rarely feature a fingerprint file. Yes I can see the text file labeled ffp. Why not just make it a fingerprint file though? Is there some program I don't know about that can verify text documents? I just use TLH to run my FFPs.

Roman
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PaulusS
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Post 2019-11-10 22:54   [Quote] 
Ro-Ro wrote:
...the glory daze of Vista.

There's your problem! Very Happy

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Ro-Ro
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Post 2019-11-11 01:21   [Quote] 
Vista or 10?
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father-0blivion
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Post 2019-11-11 15:07   [Quote] 
As some of the guys have said above, these days it's much more about having good intentions than numbers that have become meaningless.. but I understand if you still have questions... Maybe if I have a go at recounting my experiences since I joined you may find some help somewhere... (It includes the story about how I got one of the biggest ratios here almost by accident...)

When I first joined I knew nothing about torrents or p2p etc. and had very little wider ''computer knowledge'' (still have.). (I also used Vista, 7, and currently 10...)
I had nothing new in the way of shows to offer so - a bit like you - I realized that one of the ways I could give back was to seed the shows I had just downloaded for others...
The first thing I did was to read, thoroughly, everything I could find here about rules, conventions, ''how-to..'' instructions, limits etc. (One of the most useful things I learnt was that the ZT tracker imposes a limit on the amount of shows you can seed... It was 25 at that time but was changed to 50 a few years ago.) This was useful because although uTorrent would allow me to leave seeding ALL the shows I'd downloaded without limit, the tracker wouldn't ... and this would show itself by turning some of the shows red in uTorrent and the shows displayed in ''My Profile'' on the site kept changing around on their own (I suppose it was trying to decide which 25 of the 200+ shows I had seeding in uTorrent to display..) It also quite often stopped me uploading anything to any leecher that showed up... So I kept a strict eye on the amount of shows I was seeding - If I downloaded a new show I made sure I stopped at least one I already had going.

I still wasn't building any sort of ratio though... I'd look at some of the longer term guys and saw ratios of 5 or 7 or even over 10 and think ''I'll never get anywhere near that''.
I asked for advice on improving my ratio and was told to try and get on any newly uploaded shows as quickly as possible... I did this by checking the tracker almost continuously and sometimes I was even the first to start downloading a show!! This actually worked quite well and sometimes I'd get a ratio of 4 or 5+ on those particular torrents (Although I could see that some members with fat pipes got ratios of 20 or 30!)
Then I discovered the vines.... By participating in sending round DVDs with shows on them (the vines) I could obtain a much, much wider selection of shows to seed without ANY detrimental effect on my ratio (I've still only ever ''downloaded'' approx. 250Gb of stuff although I have most of what is here)
This is where things started to take off... It gave me almost a daily ratio increase because whenever a leecher appeared it didn't matter what show it was for because - thanks to the vines - I almost certainly had it!
I know the vines may not help you much because you've already downloaded quite a bit of stuff but ultimately it wouldn't really have mattered if I'd downloaded all the shows... the vines just gave me an initial boost

Anyway, then came a period where I seemed to be about the only one who checked the Orphanz list daily (this has changed, I'll come back to it soon) and subsequently this is when I built my big ratio... (One of the things I noticed is I often missed leechers when they appeared at night so I started leaving my laptop on 24hrs... Although this doesn't allow you to respond to individual requests it does mean that you'll upload to any leechers that appear on the 25 shows you DO have seeding...) I also got an extra long cable and connected to my router with it, the often hit and miss WIFI was bypassed.. I basically manned my laptop as much as possible and as soon as I saw a leecher appear I'd find that show on my HDD and start seeding it.... I built such a big ratio so quickly that I even got a couple of letters from my service provider asking about the crazy amount I was uploading, and they started to strangle my connection at times.... very soon it became pointless to continue with that intensity as my ratio had gone up to a totally mad figure...
Nowdays I just pick a few of my favourite shows and seed them most of the time... I don't get much upload from them but I don't really need it anymore.... I DO still check the Orphanz list but as I alluded to earlier, that experience has changed... These days there are a few members who seem to monitor that list almost continuously 24/7 (there's one in particular who turns up on every torrent I've started seeding for someone in the last year or so, and as he has a much better upload speed than me I usually only upload about a 1/10th of the torrent... So, as I don't need It, I don't bother with Orphanz much anymore... but if you're trying to build a ratio this makes it much harder... In other words you wouldn't be able to build your ratio now in the same way as I did a few years ago...

In summary I would say that if you want to build a big ratio, whilst a big fat pipe will help, the thing you need most of all is spare time... time to read everything about being a good seeder, time to monitor the site all day every day and jump on those seed requests before someone else jumps in and uploads the whole show while you're still finding it on your HDD, time to check your profile and computer often and make sure everything is as it should be... etc. etc.

Well done, it's nice to see people want to still ''play fair'' and not be all ''take take take'' and have the greedy attitude that is so prevalent today... But don't worry about it too much and don't worry about things that mean nothing... I've never concerned myself with a fingerprint OR shntool file... it's just not worth taking it all too seriously.. I can assure you that having a big ratio means nothing to anybody else...

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''Just consider this..... You can be scared when it gets too real...''
(FZ: ''It Just Might Be A One-Shot Deal'')

'' 'n pretty soon, there won't be no street, for dummies to jog on, or doggies to dog on, religious fanatics, can make it be all gone...''
(FZ: ''Dumb All Over'')


Last edited by father-0blivion on 2019-11-12 08:45; edited 1 time in total
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