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I cleaned up Vancouver 1975 and Id like peoples opinion if thats okay
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bjankins1
Joined: 2017-10-16
Posts: 31
Post 2019-11-06 04:23   [Quote] 
Hello everybody i recently got into learning how to EQ and use tools to try to clean up recordings to my best ability, when i first heard vancouver, i wanted to like it and i just couldnt becaause i couldnt look past my own issues about sound quality...until i learned how to use these tools available to me, so i went to work, instead of being a copy and paste type of guy, i wanted to go beyond what a bootlegger would do, so i had to evaluate this recording

1. Bass heavy on right side

Very odd at first not knowing why until i decided okay lets try to flip the channels and normalize it, to my surprise it helped

2. Terrys drums are super low whats going on?
This is another i had no clue moment for me, i had recently found out terrys drums Was not miced up, thats okay so when i applied EQ that made it easier to hear

3. Tape flips and the recording going soft during any downers

So the tapeflip is pretty early on during carolina hardcore ecstasy and i have no clue if there has been available fills for the missing part of franks solo, the other tape flip happens during chungas revenge but whats weird is there is two cuts during chunga and the other fill is from an audience recording, would love to see if there is SBD fills, now on to any downers, for some odd reason, the SBD goes soft right when franks solo comes in so i had to find a way to make that at least somewhat clear

After 3 times trying out these evaluations i came to a mix that i really enjoyed

To put the cherry on top i found a a few pictures from the show that recently came from a recent shoebox master audience recording

Thank you for that and honestly thank all of you for work

Now heres the problem guys i put it on youtube for two reasons

1. I know that its not really okay to upload remasters so i thought if you guys wanted to check it out i would put it there first

2. I have no clue actually how to upload stuff here, just being honest

So here i leave a link to the playlist i hope you guys enjoy it, if you donr plz tell me why, it helps understsnd where i might have went wrong

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrCLs5e56TDFLyfBrVvlFNZYRd-AgViBu

Once again thank all of you for your work, thank frank and thanks Vaultmeister joe
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Pittylabelle
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Post 2019-11-06 12:38   [Quote] 
Thanks for your offer, but ...

only shows that have been left as far as possible in RAW mode can be seeded on the Zappateers Tracker. The only valid corrections are: speed correction, phase offset correction, azimuth correction, volume adjustment, DC offset correction, de-hum (mostly mains hum) and of course patching.

All other "remastering things" that you privately organize with these recordings are yours, since we (unfortunately) have no influence about it. And these things can not be posted here in any other subforum. For example, how a re-EQ has to sound is, after all, a very personal thing.

The only exceptions to "remastering" (if you want to put it that way) are extremely poor quality footage. But even here, only the elimination of interferences comes into question. If somehow possible NO de-noising should be used.

However, this always requires a prior discussion in the sub-forum "Samples & Fills".

If you already post it on YouTube, then at least a reference to your basic untouched sources at Zappateers would be appropriate.
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TPS
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Post 2019-11-06 15:13   [Quote] 
Pittylabelle is correct.
You can however link to your youtube version in a post on the tracker thread for the source you used, along with the above explanation of what you did and why. I'm sure some zappateers will be interested to compare and learn what is possible with the current toolboxes.

And, thanks for caring about Franks legacy.

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yetanother
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Post 2019-11-06 18:26   [Quote] 
Pittylabelle wrote:

Thanks for your offer, but ...

only shows that have been left as far as possible in RAW mode can be seeded on the Zappateers Tracker.

In fact, he already knew that, that's why he posted it on youtube. As I understand he wasn't offering to put it here, but rather asking for feedback on his work.

I haven't listened to that show in ages, not one of my favorite eras anyway, but to my ears he did a good job. It's not a remaster, I think "cleanup" is an appropriate term, and I'm sure fans of this show will enjoy it.

bjankins1, I just think you could maybe post the whole show as one video, so as to eliminate the gaps between tracks as youtube loads the next video.

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Last edited by yetanother on 2019-11-14 22:44; edited 1 time in total
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Pittylabelle
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Post 2019-11-06 20:15   [Quote] 
yetanother wrote:
In fact, he already knew that, that's why he posted it on youtube. As I understand he wasn't offering to put it here, but rather asking for feedback on his work.

yetanother wrote:
It's not a remaster, I think "cleanup" is an appropriate term ...

No problem, as I understand it, he wasn't really sure about that:

"... I recently got into learning how to EQ ..."
"1. I know that it's not really okay to upload remasters ..."
"2. I have no clue actually how to upload stuff here ..."
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cookie_manager
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Post 2019-11-06 22:25   [Quote] 
When comparing it to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIfeGyb0nNk I have to say I like the "bass heavy" thing a bit better. To my ears it's more rounded than the new version. I suppose you emphasized the higher frequencies to get the drums a bit more audible? Well, that's a typical thing with remastering a 2-track source of a larger ensemble: You spot a problem, have an idea how to fix it, but since you're only dealing with a stereo recording, something else will be affected too, probably not to the better. I tend to prefer a balanced ensemble sound over an eq-job that makes one instrument stand out a bit more.

But after all, it's really a matter of taste. I've been involved in CD-productions with professional guys doing the mixing + mastering job and I really had the impression their ears are fucked up. Treble-heavy and almost unlistenable for me. But with different music come different mastering esthetics.

I have a few weird sounding concert & rehearsal recordings of bands I play in, occasionally trying to make them sound better, and the attitude I developed over time is: If in doubt use the version closer to the original.

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bjankins1
Joined: 2017-10-16
Posts: 31
Post 2019-11-06 22:48   [Quote] 
Pittylabelle wrote:
Thanks for your offer, but ...

only shows that have been left as far as possible in RAW mode can be seeded on the Zappateers Tracker. The only valid corrections are: speed correction, phase offset correction, azimuth correction, volume adjustment, DC offset correction, de-hum (mostly mains hum) and of course patching.

All other "remastering things" that you privately organize with these recordings are yours, since we (unfortunately) have no influence about it. And these things can not be posted here in any other subforum. For example, how a re-EQ has to sound is, after all, a very personal thing.

The only exceptions to "remastering" (if you want to put it that way) are extremely poor quality footage. But even here, only the elimination of interferences comes into question. If somehow possible NO de-noising should be used.

However, this always requires a prior discussion in the sub-forum "Samples & Fills".

If you already post it on YouTube, then at least a reference to your basic untouched sources at Zappateers would be appropriate.


Thanks for the feedbaxk on it, i will leave it just where its at
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Pittylabelle
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Post 2019-11-06 22:55   [Quote] 
cookie_manager wrote:
When comparing it to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIfeGyb0nNk I have to say I like the "bass heavy" thing a bit better. To my ears it's more rounded than the new version. I suppose you emphasized the higher frequencies to get the drums a bit more audible? Well, that's a typical thing with remastering a 2-track source of a larger ensemble: You spot a problem, have an idea how to fix it, but since you're only dealing with a stereo recording, something else will be affected too, probably not to the better. I tend to prefer a balanced ensemble sound over an eq-job that makes one instrument stand out a bit more.

But after all, it's really a matter of taste. I've been involved in CD-productions with professional guys doing the mixing + mastering job and I really had the impression their ears are fucked up. Treble-heavy and almost unlistenable for me. But with different music come different mastering esthetics.

I have a few weird sounding concert & rehearsal recordings of bands I play in, occasionally trying to make them sound better, and the attitude I developed over time is: If in doubt use the version closer to the original.


I usually edit my own audience recordings with "iZotope Ozone".

Mainly I work with a Corrective EQ and a Maximizer.
You can get out of a RAW recording so much, which would
otherwise dormant in secret.

Why not improve a recording that has been taken in the
most difficult conditions?


Last edited by Pittylabelle on 2019-11-06 22:57; edited 1 time in total
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bjankins1
Joined: 2017-10-16
Posts: 31
Post 2019-11-06 22:56   [Quote] 
cookie_manager wrote:
When comparing it to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIfeGyb0nNk I have to say I like the "bass heavy" thing a bit better. To my ears it's more rounded than the new version. I suppose you emphasized the higher frequencies to get the drums a bit more audible? Well, that's a typical thing with remastering a 2-track source of a larger ensemble: You spot a problem, have an idea how to fix it, but since you're only dealing with a stereo recording, something else will be affected too, probably not to the better. I tend to prefer a balanced ensemble sound over an eq-job that makes one instrument stand out a bit more.

But after all, it's really a matter of taste. I've been involved in CD-productions with professional guys doing the mixing + mastering job and I really had the impression their ears are fucked up. Treble-heavy and almost unlistenable for me. But with different music come different mastering esthetics.

I have a few weird sounding concert & rehearsal recordings of bands I play in, occasionally trying to make them sound better, and the attitude I developed over time is: If in doubt use the version closer to the original.


Thanks for the feedback i just wanted to fix how heavy it was on the right side, and at times i feel like the bass can get caught with andre lewis in the mix almost sometimes making him muffled, but thats just to my ears, people are different
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TOGFIADO
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Post 2019-11-07 03:58   [Quote] 
Quote:
2. Terrys drums are super low whats going on?
This is another i had no clue moment for me, i had recently found out terrys drums Was not miced up, thats okay so when i applied EQ that made it easier to hear

You're having a laugh, aren't you?. How did you find out the kit wasn't miked up? How did the audience hear it if it wasn't? Sources please, for this claim. I have worked in the live music/touring business for 40 years and in 1975 even a band playing clubs would have at least 3 mikes on the drum kit- Kick, Snare,Overhead (to capture the rest). Just in case anyone bothers to work it out, yes I know 1975 was more than 40 years ago, but I know a lot of guys who started in the late 60's and early 70s who taught me a lot in my early days. And told a lot of stories. And I was going to a lot of shows then, and I have eyes and ears. And, surprisingly, better memories of then than last year.
I'd love to see the photos of the show- I would bet there're mike stands all round the kit.
All that aside, I suspect every Zappateer "plays" with the wonderful raw sources provided here to suit their own taste. Personally, I have a problem with anything that wasn't overseen by Frank, (and even then I disagree with him about digital), the best example of which are the Hammersmith CDs. Absolutely hate the mix/eq/treatments compared to the material from the same shows on SY or YCDTOSA. Slightly different to what you've done I admit. But my point is, be happy with what you've done, but keep it to yourself. Sorry if it all sounds a bit negative/harsh, but anyone can remaster nowadays with the tools available. 99.9% of them don't really know what they're doing, except they think it sounds "better" to them. So keep it personal. But continue loving and enjoying Frank's legacy.

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Pittylabelle
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Post 2019-11-07 12:00   [Quote] 
TOGFIADO, I agree with you 99.9 %. Wink

Nevertheless, it is possible with a Corrective EQ and a Maximizer to get much more out of a recording.
I'm talking about for example AUD recordings or stage recordings, in which the individual instruments
are of course no longer separable. And I personally already know exactly what I'm doing.

Or another example of the latest official "Halloween Chicago 73" release. Obviously pre-mixed
by the original engineer - and then probably subsequently edited with a Corrective EQ.
But they had a littel bit more options here, as these are probably 4-track recordings, right?
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pbuzby
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Post 2019-11-07 14:17   [Quote] 
Pittylabelle wrote:

But they had a littel bit more options here, as these are probably 4-track recordings, right?


Yes although Joe mentioned that on these and other four-tracks from FZ's vault, the engineer only used three of the four tracks.
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yetanother
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Post 2019-11-07 17:14   [Quote] 
pbuzby wrote:
Pittylabelle wrote:

But they had a littel bit more options here, as these are probably 4-track recordings, right?


Yes although Joe mentioned that on these and other four-tracks from FZ's vault, the engineer only used three of the four tracks.

...and just two of these for the music, the remaining one being reserved for the audience. So in practice it's just a plain ol' stereo mix.

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jaypfunk
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Post 2019-11-07 18:02   [Quote] 
I find the statement that Terry drums were not mic'd to be absolutely ridiculous, especially in venue playing in front of a few THOUSAND people. I'd like to know where this horseshit info came from as well. CNN perhaps?

It's obvious to me that the drums were just were not recorded well for this recording.

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Post 2019-11-07 18:07   [Quote] 
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