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you cant do that on stage anymore Vol 2
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pbuzby
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Post 2018-10-26 18:13   [Quote] 
Tero wrote:
Listening to Pygmy Twylyte. This has one of my favorite Zappa solos. It’s not just over a vamp. Will need to compare to the Roxy version. I only have two Roxy discs, not the complete. No solo on original Roxy track, segues to Dummy Up.


The Roxy box set has one or two takes of the song with FZ solos, but they are over the fast funk groove from that tour rather than the slow one on Helsinki.
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Tero
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Post 2018-12-03 17:10   [Quote] 
On Pygmy Twlyte, what happens at the end of the track? It seems to be a complete take, then George does a bit of Mozart on keyboard and there is sort of a gap, it comes back at 7:52 for a very short end bit and then segues onto the next track with "honey, honey, tush tush.." vocals etc. Then the main part of Room Service.

Are they perhaps from the two days, with the join from one day to the other at the keyboard break?

I'm not looking for any recordings, just the explanation.
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pbuzby
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Post 2018-12-04 00:10   [Quote] 
Tero wrote:


I'm not looking for any recordings, just the explanation.


Unless someone who was at the shows or has heard the unedited recordings joins the thread, we can only guess.
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Tero
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Post 2018-12-04 03:48   [Quote] 
It's such a minor point. If the set list was the same for the two confirmed dates, they obviously used the best take of each song. Especially Disc 1 was most likely the same set. Disc 2 probably not.

The only source that might have the set lists is the Poroila book. It is to be ordered from him directly.
http://www.musiikkikirjastot.fi/musiikkipalvelut/suomen-musiikkikirjastoyhdistys/julkaisusarja/
description in English.
http://www.afka.net/Books/poroila.htm

I can read the Finnish but would not have other use of the book.

Juhani Heinonen was at the concerts and his words are still in the Järvi-Heinonen account.
https://www.palasokeri.com/artikkeli/1126

I have met Juhani and he does not have any more details than what is there. Juhani lives somewhere in Turku, where I met him. Poroila I never met.
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Tero
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Post 2018-12-04 04:49   [Quote] 
One could, technically run a comparison of Helsinki and the tapes of
1974 09 20 - KB Hallen, København, Denmark
1974 09 25 - Konserthuset, Göteborg, Sweden

And get some idea of the typical course of the Pygmy Twylyte/Room service etc sequence on that tour.
I'm not a tapes collector. I have only one "tape" of all of 74, Southbend/Notre Dame. It has no Room Service. The show barely resembles the Europe set.

Without the Danish and Swedish tapes on hand, I’ll speculate that Pygmy Twylyte is from Day 1 and Room Service is a following day. They had more time to experience mace in the face and fish with the eyeballs, so Room Service was going to have more local flavor. I think we got all of Pygmy Twylyte whereas the parts that follow were edited as well as they could.
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BurntLumpyGravy
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Post 2019-01-16 07:32   [Quote] 
This one is probably my least favorite of the ycdtosa series, and for many of the reasons you all have mentioned. It got me thinking though, as I've tried to listen to this album more in depth, I compared the guitar solo from the OSFA Inca Roads with the live version on here, and Frank sure did use the same drums, keys, bass from this concert recording. But to me the OSFA mix sounds soooooo much better than the live version from ycdtosa vol 2.

I think what's up with this mix might be the microphones capturing the audience. After seeing what some of y'all have said and listening in depth, I think what Frank was probably going for with this release was a genuine feel of being there, the ambience of the room, etc. And he probably didn't want to fade in and out those audience mic tracks for every little nuance so he just left them at a higher level throughout, giving it that muddy reverb sound which drowns everything out almost. Especially the audience though, with the whole whipping post shit. It's not too noticeable but the crowd seemed pretty rowdy and I think Frank liked that.

Listening with headphones has been a revelation to me for this album. For instance, around 1:33 of Dupree's Paradise, right before Zappa gives a shoutout to Mussorgsky, you can hear someone yell "THANK YA SO MUCH!" I never knew that was there, and I just have a weird sense of humor but that shit's funny as hell for some reason the way that guy yelled it.

But nah I definitely think if Joe can find the rest of the Helsinki tapes I would totally be down for a Complete Helsinki Tapes box set with a brand new mix more similar to OSFA Inca roads solo and less audience based, unless it's indeed the tapes which made this version sound so bad, hopefully not, hopefully they were and still are in good condition.
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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-01-16 10:22   [Quote] 
BurntLumpyGravy wrote:
This one is probably my least favorite of the ycdtosa series, and for many of the reasons you all have mentioned. It got me thinking though, as I've tried to listen to this album more in depth, I compared the guitar solo from the OSFA Inca Roads with the live version on here, and Frank sure did use the same drums, keys, bass from this concert recording. But to me the OSFA mix sounds soooooo much better than the live version from ycdtosa vol 2.

I think what's up with this mix might be the microphones capturing the audience. After seeing what some of y'all have said and listening in depth, I think what Frank was probably going for with this release was a genuine feel of being there, the ambience of the room, etc. And he probably didn't want to fade in and out those audience mic tracks for every little nuance so he just left them at a higher level throughout, giving it that muddy reverb sound which drowns everything out almost. Especially the audience though, with the whole whipping post shit. It's not too noticeable but the crowd seemed pretty rowdy and I think Frank liked that.

Listening with headphones has been a revelation to me for this album. For instance, around 1:33 of Dupree's Paradise, right before Zappa gives a shoutout to Mussorgsky, you can hear someone yell "THANK YA SO MUCH!" I never knew that was there, and I just have a weird sense of humor but that shit's funny as hell for some reason the way that guy yelled it.

But nah I definitely think if Joe can find the rest of the Helsinki tapes I would totally be down for a Complete Helsinki Tapes box set with a brand new mix more similar to OSFA Inca roads solo and less audience based, unless it's indeed the tapes which made this version sound so bad, hopefully not, hopefully they were and still are in good condition.


pretty much agree... playing brilliant sound weird... still love the overall performance, clearly Frank loved it to from his notes and a IN DEPTH COMPLETE HELSINKI would be wonderful... similarly a COMPLETE OSAKA from The Eyes Of Osaka - 1976 02 03 Osaka Japan would complete the set of post MOTHERS OF INVENTION Frank for me... I know yadda yadda yadda on Napoleons sax!
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Tero
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Post 2019-01-16 15:40   [Quote] 
I can’t say any ofvthe other ycdtosa sets get mich play from me. The conceptual continuity never worked for me in the others. I just collect some of the tracks from them and add them as ”bonus tracks” to the studio or live album of that year.

1974 was the year I saw Zappa in Ohio so this and Roxy have more meaning to me than most albums. For studio albums, Apostrophe and One Size. Those are al I would need for desert island discs. I guess I would add maybe 200 Motels for roundness of sample.

Deserted? Why don’t we say deserted island?

When Bongo Fury came out I had barely heard of Captain Beefheart. (Hot Rats and maybe one track off Troutmask Replica.)With the tracks from ycdtosa and a bootleg from a friend (we had CD burners and had to send them in the mail then) I finally started making some sense of Beefheart. But never colllected his stuff. Torture on Vol 4 and some other tracks made that one, vol 2 and Vol 1 for Flo and Eddie made those 3 essential.

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Last edited by Tero on 2019-01-16 15:56; edited 1 time in total
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father-0blivion
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Post 2019-01-16 15:48   [Quote] 
Tero wrote:
...Deserted? Why don’t we say deserted island?

Because that could be wrong... It could imply that there was once a population there that has now gone (or deserted), whereas a desert island just implies that it is a barren (lifeless) place.

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Tero
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Post 2019-01-16 16:45   [Quote] 
Yes I see. We actually have a Finnish word: autio. It is exactly that but has to be translated as uninhabited or desolate. Another word describes ”treeless island.”

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-01-16 17:47   [Quote] 
Tero wrote:
Yes I see. We actually have a Finnish word: autio. It is exactly that but has to be translated as uninhabited or desolate. Another word describes ”treeless island.”


I'm actually going to be camping in the NULLARBOR Desert in Western Australia next month for conceptual continuity... (Null Arbor = no trees or treeless in Latin)

When I was doing my live playlists i found rescuing certain eras from YCDTOSA most useful....

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=359687#359687

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=32537&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

What does the poodle do after he bites?
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Tero
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Post 2019-01-16 18:22   [Quote] 
Thanks, the lists.

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father-0blivion
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Post 2019-01-16 19:00   [Quote] 
wingedeelfingerling wrote:
...What does the poodle do after he bites?

C'mon Frenchie, you know this one.... He chews it of course...

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''Just consider this..... You can be scared when it gets too real...''
(FZ: ''It Just Might Be A One-Shot Deal'')

'' 'n pretty soon, there won't be no street, for dummies to jog on, or doggies to dog on, religious fanatics, can make it be all gone...''
(FZ: ''Dumb All Over'')
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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2019-01-16 19:43   [Quote] 
father-0blivion wrote:
wingedeelfingerling wrote:
...What does the poodle do after he bites?

C'mon Frenchie, you know this one.... He chews it of course...

Agreed... some say the Poodle uses it.... see posts passim.
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father-0blivion
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Post 2019-01-16 19:56   [Quote] 
Don't I remember something about 'someone' thinking he ''chooses''?

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(FZ: ''It Just Might Be A One-Shot Deal'')

'' 'n pretty soon, there won't be no street, for dummies to jog on, or doggies to dog on, religious fanatics, can make it be all gone...''
(FZ: ''Dumb All Over'')
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