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"hot Rats" possible best Zappa album?
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uncle max
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Post 2017-12-24 10:19   [Quote] 
cookie_manager wrote:

I think most of Hot Rats' rest is fine if you like late 60s rock jamming.


I don't like late 60s rock jamming; I think it's mostly boring.
HR is one of my favourite albums ever.

There must be an explanation though (at least for this personal view of mine). I try to share it with you, even if risking to be boring as 60's jamming Smile

I think that first of all HR cannot be rated as a jamming album when it comes to:
- Peaches en Regalia
- It Must Be a Camel
- Little Umbrellas
which are fine compositions to me (Peaches being really one of my top 5 Frank's songs).
I see it in the same way as concerns the lyric section of Willie the Pimp, which is a killer blues above average to me and the introductory section of Son of Mr. Green Genes, which is again to me a very valuable composition.
The production of all these pieces is awesome, specially if you listen to them in the late 60's / early 70's. If you did so, I think it may easily stick forever in your mind as it is for me.

What we may call the "jamming" parts is then the guitar solos in WTP and SOMGG, and The Gumbo Variations.
The point here is that, for the first 2 songs, we are talking of a top notch guitar player, not even caught while jamming but most probably edited by one of the most capable producers. Final result? Not exactly guitar solos but something like, again, very nice (and at that time unusual) compositions to my ears.

TGV is really the song which may push me to think "jamming". Yes but again here we have Ian and Sugarcane at their best, which is far above the average 60's jamming you would find in rock albums of that period (also because here we talk of non traditional instruments for rock, such as violin and sax played in a way to inspire David Jackson of VDGG, infact not exactly a traditional and jamming rock player).
And again, listen to how effective Frank's production and editing is. Compare the original mix (shorter) to the longer CD mix. Sometimes less is better Smile

In the end I think that HR is in part the result of jams but Frank's intervention on them made the difference and, without losing their spontaneous taste, turned them into something of a superior quality.

Sorry for this noodling around guys. Merry Christmas Smile

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polydigm
Joined: 2005-10-28
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Post 2017-12-26 00:04   [Quote] 
uncle max wrote:
Sorry for this noodling around guys. Merry Christmas Smile
Not at all. You've basically explained why I think it's one of his best albums.

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2017-12-28 09:04   [Quote] 
uncle max wrote:
cookie_manager wrote:

I think most of Hot Rats' rest is fine if you like late 60s rock jamming.


I don't like late 60s rock jamming; I think it's mostly boring.
HR is one of my favourite albums ever.

There must be an explanation though (at least for this personal view of mine). I try to share it with you, even if risking to be boring as 60's jamming Smile

I think that first of all HR cannot be rated as a jamming album when it comes to:
- Peaches en Regalia
- It Must Be a Camel
- Little Umbrellas
which are fine compositions to me (Peaches being really one of my top 5 Frank's songs).
I see it in the same way as concerns the lyric section of Willie the Pimp, which is a killer blues above average to me and the introductory section of Son of Mr. Green Genes, which is again to me a very valuable composition.
The production of all these pieces is awesome, specially if you listen to them in the late 60's / early 70's. If you did so, I think it may easily stick forever in your mind as it is for me.

What we may call the "jamming" parts is then the guitar solos in WTP and SOMGG, and The Gumbo Variations.
The point here is that, for the first 2 songs, we are talking of a top notch guitar player, not even caught while jamming but most probably edited by one of the most capable producers. Final result? Not exactly guitar solos but something like, again, very nice (and at that time unusual) compositions to my ears.

TGV is really the song which may push me to think "jamming". Yes but again here we have Ian and Sugarcane at their best, which is far above the average 60's jamming you would find in rock albums of that period (also because here we talk of non traditional instruments for rock, such as violin and sax played in a way to inspire David Jackson of VDGG, infact not exactly a traditional and jamming rock player).
And again, listen to how effective Frank's production and editing is. Compare the original mix (shorter) to the longer CD mix. Sometimes less is better Smile

In the end I think that HR is in part the result of jams but Frank's intervention on them made the difference and, without losing their spontaneous taste, turned them into something of a superior quality.

Sorry for this noodling around guys. Merry Christmas Smile

No apologies Uncle I think the 'jamming' tag is just a way of dismissing the album
Yes there is some extemporising but the musicians on the album are Jazz studio musicians hired to play charts along with Ian Underwood.
That is the whole point of the album to get away from the jamming MOI (which reached its hight on Burnt Weeny and Uncle Meat which along with RATS are my top 3 at least for today lol).
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BeatTheReaper
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Post 2017-12-28 10:49   [Quote] 
Gwonam wrote:
haven't heard Waka/Jawaka yet "gasp"

I envy you man! It would be great to rediscover all once more.
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cookie_manager
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Post 2017-12-31 15:34   [Quote] 
I need to listen to Hot Rats again. I'm very familiar with all tracks on that album, but at some point I decided I don't want to hear SoMGG, WtP and TGV again. Because the extensive soloing on those mostly bores me. But like I said, maybe it's time to revisit that one. Listening habits and preferences change.

I just did another compilation for a drum student of mine, Zappa is the one with the most tracks, and the "FZ-department" is opened by (tush tush) Peaches en Regalia. Several years ago, I did another one for another student, and Peaches was the only track he liked.

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clinebrowns
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Post 2018-01-10 23:35   [Quote] 
The solos on "The Gumbo Variations" are definitely worth revisiting! It's also worth mentioning that each version of this album (original vs remaster) produces entirely different effects. I personally prefer the 90s remaster but probably only because I was introduced to it first. Either way, Hot Rats is hands down my favorite album of FZ's extensive catalog. Not only was it his first solo album (minus LG, which he's only credited as composer) but a sonic dedicated to the newborn Dweez. This is easily among his top 5. IMH('humble')O, of course

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wingedeelfingerling
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Post 2018-01-12 20:07   [Quote] 
clinebrowns wrote:
The solos on "The Gumbo Variations" are definitely worth revisiting! It's also worth mentioning that each version of this album (original vs remaster) produces entirely different effects. I personally prefer the 90s remaster but probably only because I was introduced to it first. Either way, Hot Rats is hands down my favorite album of FZ's extensive catalog. Not only was it his first solo album (minus LG, which he's only credited as composer) but a sonic dedicated to the newborn Dweez. This is easily among his top 5. IMH('humble')O, of course


right on brother I love the GUMBO VARIATIONS and eh welcome to the mad house!
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orontea
Joined: 2010-08-30
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Post 2018-01-13 23:11   [Quote] 
Hot Rats never clicked with me. Even though I madly love "Little Umbrellas".
I think that the "Gumbo Variations" are garbage.

Don't throw stones at me but HR is in the top ten of my least favourite FZ albums.
But it is interesting because HR is such a particularity in the FZ catalogue … maybe that's why it is so loved.

But what do I know … "Thing Fish" is in my Top Ten of my favourite FZ albums Shocked
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StarThrower
Joined: 2016-08-26
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Post 2018-01-23 03:12   [Quote] 
My picks from that era are Weasels, and Uncle Meat.
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brainpang
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Joined: 2007-02-01
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Post 2018-02-16 09:55   [Quote] 
posted at youtube under HOT RATS:::: ratcheting it up as the best Zappa (and that means Mothers) album EVER:

Sky Walker
3 months ago
A friend of mine left me all of his early Zappa albums up to and including this one (and the early Beefheart albums) till he got back
from the war, except he never made it back. I now have ~40 Zappa and ~20 Beefheart albums. This was his favorite album and
when I go to the wall I always leave a photocopy of this album cover with some emotional writing about the good times we had in
the late 60's and thanks for getting me into Zappa all these years. R.I.P. JB
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inflatablefilth
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Post 2018-02-24 01:16   [Quote] 
Love it. My fave of the early albums, until Waka/Jawaka
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bleachboy
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Post 2018-02-24 11:41   [Quote] 
Not a fan of the jam thing. Had Aynsley already been in the band at that time, that would have changed my opinion on the album. Fact is I'm really not a fan of the drummer on that record (except on Peaches). BWS is on top of everything !

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jaypfunk
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Post 2018-02-25 17:51   [Quote] 
bleachboy wrote:
Not a fan of the jam thing. Had Aynsley already been in the band at that time, that would have changed my opinion on the album. Fact is I'm really not a fan of the drummer on that record (except on Peaches). BWS is on top of everything !


Why? John Guerin was a monster and his playing on HR is further proof of this.

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misterjones
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Post 2018-03-03 21:41   [Quote] 
[quote="Ed Organmax"]Be sure to get the recent 2012 remaster, that's among the 2012 Universal reissues that were using original analogue masters as a source. Sounds brilliant. And despite the fact I said "Big Swifty" sounds a bit weird, the title track "Waka/Jawaka" is definitely a true masterpiece, not to be missed.[/quote]

Perhaps I've developed what I refer to as "vinyl ears" since getting back into the medium several years ago, but I now find my 1995 CD release to be a bit too harsh for me. I think it has more clarity than the 2012 version (which I just got from the local library), but at the cost of some irritation to my ears. I understand they are different mixes, but I guess I prefer the 2012 version. I don't think I would have felt that way 10 years ago.

Apart from the different mixes, what is the view here about the sound quality of the two versions? I didn't see another thread on the topic, but if there is one I would appreciate being routed there.
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bleachboy
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Post 2018-03-04 08:43   [Quote] 
jaypfunk wrote:
bleachboy wrote:
Not a fan of the jam thing. Had Aynsley already been in the band at that time, that would have changed my opinion on the album. Fact is I'm really not a fan of the drummer on that record (except on Peaches). BWS is on top of everything !


Why? John Guerin was a monster and his playing on HR is further proof of this.
Sure, I just don't think his tone/style blends well with the rest of the players. It's also probably because ofthe way the drums were recorded...

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