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1974 11 09 (E) Boston MA AUD Yojimbo vs. BobM-DrZap SAMPLES  
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Overnitefreak
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Post 2011-12-21 04:57   [Quote] 
Frank Zappa
1974 11 09 Early show
Orpheum Theater, Boston, MA
~90 min, Aud, B~


Here are samples to compare our current Yojimbo-Kristoftof seed to the BobM-doctorzap 2nd gen in the shoebox. The two versions are from the same master source with the same cuts at the beginning, end and tape flips as far as I can tell. The only exception being the small cut in Stinkfoot in the currently seeded Yojimbo version is not present in the BobM-doctorzap version.

We'll also need to know if there are any other sources to check on this one.


Lineage (Yojimbo source):

Maxell XLII ??gen tape > Denon DRM-800A -> M-Audio Audiophile 2496 -> Soundforge -> wav -> FLAC Frontend
then my PC > Flac/Wav > CoolEdit retracking level, phase & speed adjustments > flac frontend level 8

Seeded on tracker here: http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16194

Lineage (BobM-doctorzap source):

Lineage: Maxell XLII 2nd GEN > Nakamichi DR-1 > Realtek HDAudio pentium i7 > Soundforge 10 Pro Highest quality setting Izotope 64 bit src downsampling / MBIT+dither> TLH

Seeded in the shoebox here: http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=21988

Track list:
01 Tush Tush Tush (begining missing, cut at 2:33)
02 Stinkfoot (cut at 4:46)
03 RDNZL
04 Village Of The Sun
05 Echidna's Arf
06 Don't You Ever Wash That Thing?

07 Po-jama People (tf at 6:41)
08 I'm Not Satisfied
09 Penguin In Bondage
10 T'Mershi Duween
11 Dog Meat
12 Building A Girl
13 Crowd Noise/Tuning (cuts here & there)

14 Yellow Snow Suite
15 Tush Tush Tush
16 Crowd Noise/Tuning

17 Camarillo Brillo (tape end at 3:12, end missing)


Last edited by Overnitefreak on 2011-12-22 01:10; edited 1 time in total
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Drew51
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Post 2011-12-21 08:40   [Quote] 
Wow these are close. OK the Yojimbo version is a little duller, but also has a touch less hiss. So I'm kinda torn here. I'm not sure the brightness of the BobM-doctorzap is better? It is at least a known gen (it sounds 2nd gen). Both are decent. I guess the BobM-doctorzap has 1 strike it is hissy. The Yojimbo version has 2 strikes, unknown gen, a little duller. Again, the brightness sounds a little fake, generational shift maybe? Almost a dead heat for me. A slight edge to BobM-doctorzap version. Although an argument for the Yojimbo version can be made.
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flambay
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Post 2011-12-21 10:43   [Quote] 
Quote:
The only exception being the small cut in Cosmik Debris in the currently seeded Yojimbo version is not present in the BobM-doctorzap version.

Are you referring to Cosmik Debris from the Late Show
or to a different song in this Early Show ?

Just wondering. Thanks for clarifying.
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doctorzap
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Post 2011-12-21 10:55   [Quote] 
Quote:
OK the Yojimbo version is a little duller, but also has a touch less hiss


maybe noise reduced or dolby
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Drew51
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Post 2011-12-21 15:32   [Quote] 
doctorzap wrote:
Quote:
OK the Yojimbo version is a little duller, but also has a touch less hiss


maybe noise reduced or dolby


Another possibility is incorrect azimuth, compared to spot on.
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Overnitefreak
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Post 2011-12-22 01:10   [Quote] 
Quote:
Are you referring to Cosmik Debris from the Late Show
or to a different song in this Early Show ?


Embarassed Sorry, I meant "Stinkfoot". Rolling Eyes I corrected the comments. Thanks.
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NO8DO
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Post 2011-12-24 22:56   [Quote] 
Drew51 wrote:
Wow these are close. OK the Yojimbo version is a little duller, but also has a touch less hiss. So I'm kinda torn here. I'm not sure the brightness of the BobM-doctorzap is better? It is at least a known gen (it sounds 2nd gen). Both are decent. I guess the BobM-doctorzap has 1 strike it is hissy. The Yojimbo version has 2 strikes, unknown gen, a little duller. Again, the brightness sounds a little fake, generational shift maybe? Almost a dead heat for me. A slight edge to BobM-doctorzap version. Although an argument for the Yojimbo version can be made.


Tough one indeed. For me, the BobM version edges it because it's known generation.
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Overnitefreak
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Post 2011-12-26 16:21   [Quote] 
Quote:
Tough one indeed. For me, the BobM version edges it because it's known generation.


Thanks D. I agree with you and Drew on this. Anyone else have any opinions?
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flambay
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Post 2012-04-20 17:59   [Quote] 
Quote:
Anyone else have any opinions?

Sorry for chiming in so late,
but - after closely checking the speed of the Bob M.-doctorzap copy
and finally comparing it to our current Yojimbo-Kristoftof FZ Shows seed,

I would currently vote in favour of sticking with the Yojimbo-Kristoftof version,
and to let us prepare a new AUD version for FZ Shows
with the Yojimbo-K'tof version as main body,
including a mini-patch from the BobM copy to fill the gap in Stink Foot
and to patch the remaining gaps and cuts here with material from the robsam-doctorzap SBD version.

1) There is virtually no sound difference between the two AUD source copies (BobM and Yojimbo),
we only notice a minor difference in the upper frequencies where the BobM version shows a lower response compared to the Yojimbo copy
(could be additional hiss on the Yojimbo, but I don't hear it) - see FA pic below in this post.

2) The Yojimbo version has 3 secs more material at the beginning of the tape (where Tush Tush Tush cuts in)

3) The Bob M seems to be having more speed/pitch fluctuations compared to the Yojimbo copy,
especially towards the end of the tape (Yellow Snow Suite and Camarillo Brillo)

FA comparison (Po-Jama sample before tape flip cut)
dark line - Bob M-doctorzap 2nd gen
orange line - Yojimbo-Kristoftof ??gen
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Overnitefreak
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Post 2017-02-05 04:55   [Quote] 
This show is in need of a spiff up for this audience source. Flambay's analysis pretty much nailed it but are their any other thoughts?
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