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The Bad Sources Database - version 2.0 - comments
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Yojimbo
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Post 2011-01-22 13:45   [Quote] 
Quote:
I have an alt source for 1974-02-16.

Lineage is believed to be:

MC > reel > reel > DAT

I don't regard an A/D transfer to 44.1/16 as a gen so the DAT represents the 2nd gen. reel.

I will FTP it to Drew's server.

I didn't get this bad source so I can't comment on how they compare soundwise. AFAIK mine is a straight
raw source.

It's very possible that the Bad Sources version origins from my tape, which I got from you. A friend of mine transferred it, late 90's before I could to it myself, and I know I traded that version a lot. A version straight from your DAT would be great!
Some other DATs of yours that would be very interesting to see:
1971 11 19 Stockholm
1975 12 27 Winterland
1976 11 19 Detroit
1977 11 19 Stanford
1982 06 19 E+L London
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Drew51
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Post 2011-01-22 14:52   [Quote] 
Yeah I'm having trouble with my server. It is on a new network that has 6 other computers on it, and trying to make it work, well so far I have not been able to. And don't feel much like trying at the moment, as i have no clue what computer is blocking the server?
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flambay
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Post 2011-01-22 15:02   [Quote] 
Yojimbo wrote:
musigny23 wrote:
I have an alt source for 1974-02-16.

Lineage is believed to be:

MC > reel > reel > DAT

I don't regard an A/D transfer to 44.1/16 as a gen so the DAT represents the 2nd gen. reel.

I will FTP it to Drew's server.

I didn't get this bad source so I can't comment on how they compare soundwise. AFAIK mine is a straight
raw source.

It's very possible that the Bad Sources version origins from my tape, which I got from you. A friend of mine transferred it, late 90's before I could to it myself, and I know I traded that version a lot. A version straight from your DAT would be great!
Some other DATs of yours that would be very interesting to see:
1971 11 19 Stockholm
1975 12 27 Winterland
1976 11 19 Detroit
1977 11 19 Stanford
1982 06 19 E+L London


May I add: 1973 12 01 E+L Stony Brook NY
(and probably other Grape source recordings we could have overlooked so far ...)
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musigny23
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Location: Santa Cruz California
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Post 2011-01-22 21:36   [Quote] 
OK since Drew's server is experiencing access issues, maybe I'll use the shoebox.

In the mid nineties I obtained a bunch of Bay Area shows from a longtime Bay Area taper/trader. He happened to be a Zappa collector too. The story is a little complicated. Some here might know him and have traded with him. I had a good relationship with him but there were always little things that struck me as being quirky and incongruous. One was never invited to his house and he insisted on taking blanks to make copies to be returned later. Over time slight inconsistencies were occasionally spotted in the info provided. I was to eventually allow the relationship to fade, partly due to other life priorities, partly due to running out of stuff to get, but mainly due to increasing distrust. More than once I discovered that he had made trades representing himself as the taper of an item obtained from me, in some cases taped by friends of mine and traded to him as a DAT clone. He defended the practice as a harmless way to entice distant traders to trade with HIM for a show rather than seeing them possibly get it from elsewhere and thus lose the "trade opportunity". I was uncomfortable with this.

Some years later I was learn that in the 70's he had been part of a taping/trading/collecting trio. Nearly all the shows he had told me were taped by him were actually taped by the other two and one in particular. As with the Grape, the practice was to copy master cassettes to reels. The main guy went on to a banking career and retained possession of existing cassettes and reels. He did not circulate them as far as anyone knows. The other guy left the Bay Area but his tapes were traded.

The guy I knew had told me he had taped all these shows and he hadn't. What he had were reel copies of the 1st gen reels the original taper had made for himself. He had moved away from the Bay Area for 4 years, 70-74 so he could not have taped anything during that time.

I have the Berkeley show from him also the 3 San Carlos 74 shows and the Paramount Oakland and Winterland 75.

The Stanford 77 I think he actually taped himself. However it was plagued by a bad mic cable. About 10 years ago a friend using Sound Forge did his best to fix it and those CDs are what circulated. I suppose someone can take another crack at it if they want.

I sent the thenewguy the CDs he used to seed Detroit 76 on Dime. I mastered them although without
doing any pitch adjustments. The taper sent me a DAT of his MCs. There remains an unknown aspect about that DAT. That taper was very fond of "improving" dubs for trade by applying some analog EQ
when transferring. I can't say how often he did this and he did not necessarily inform the recipient.
So it is possible my DAT is not raw and flat. I've been out of touch with him for years so I not going to finding out for sure or getting a new transfer any time soon. However he was a member of the WA state GEMS taping collective and many of their master sources have been seeded at DIME, so it may appear from that direction.

I don't think I have a Stockholm 71 source recording.

My London cassettes came from a mail trade made sometime in the year following the show with a guy in England. I think he had 1st gens. I went to both nights and all three shows and really wanted them.
They aren't that great and may not be complete.
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doctorzap
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Post 2011-01-23 10:17   [Quote] 
I have the Berkeley show from him also the 3 San Carlos 74 shows and the Paramount Oakland and Winterland 75.

these would all be appreciated I am sure
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Drew51
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Post 2011-01-23 10:29   [Quote] 
Quote:
OK since Drew's server is experiencing access issues, maybe I'll use the shoebox


Server is up again.
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doublebassy
Joined: 2005-12-03
Posts: 234
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Post 2011-01-23 20:16   [Quote] 
The Evil Prince wrote:
doctorzap wrote:
how up to date is this database and is it in sync with the one
here

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=74

if not it is confusing to have conflicting bad sources databases


I have just updated four or five entries so the BS Database should now be "in sync" with the subforum.


It's not in sync. Stockholm 73 is in this list, but has been put out as an audio-only seed so is no longer in the sub-forum. Minneapolis/St Paul 80 is in the bad source sub-forum but not in this list. Liverpool 1970 Stage is in this list, but no longer in the sub-forum because the complete pre-broadcast tape is now available. I'm sure there are others. And I'd still like to see the Sydney 73 soundboard removed from both because it is not incomplete.
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NO8DO
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Post 2011-01-23 21:03   [Quote] 
doublebassy wrote:
The Evil Prince wrote:
doctorzap wrote:
how up to date is this database and is it in sync with the one
here

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=74

if not it is confusing to have conflicting bad sources databases


I have just updated four or five entries so the BS Database should now be "in sync" with the subforum.


It's not in sync. Stockholm 73 is in this list, but has been put out as an audio-only seed so is no longer in the sub-forum. Minneapolis/St Paul 80 is in the bad source sub-forum but not in this list. Liverpool 1970 Stage is in this list, but no longer in the sub-forum because the complete pre-broadcast tape is now available. I'm sure there are others. And I'd still like to see the Sydney 73 soundboard removed from both because it is not incomplete.


Thanks, updated.
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Overnitefreak
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Joined: 2005-03-13
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Post 2011-01-24 02:23   [Quote] 
Quote:
1973 06 25 Sydney 92:21 SBD (WIU2B) (according to FZShows, the last portion of this show is the same as the last portion of 1973 06 24 - this version does not have the last portion at all. Whether this counts as "incomplete" or not is open to interpretation)

Of all the shows locked away in Bad Sources, this one is the strangest. Why would anyone describe a recording as incomplete just because it used to be filled out with another show? If anyone wants to recreate the old hybrid they can just dl the other recording and add it in. Please can this fantastic recording be restored to FZ Shows where it can be enjoyed by everybody?


I think the "incomplete" label would be more due to missing the audience version patches, not referring to the encores added from the other date. But, I suspect this version was pulled for other reasons. The most basic reason is the date is wrong.

After the major upgrade to 6/25 SBD (remember, the 6/24 & 6/25 dates were reversed on these older tapes and seeds; the 92 min SBD is really 6/24), samples were started to see if better versions were around. Sadly, it hasn't moved much other than doctorzaps recent inquiries there.

I agree, this is a show that needs to be back on the tracker and hopefully upgraded soon.
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doublebassy
Joined: 2005-12-03
Posts: 234
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Post 2011-01-24 10:15   [Quote] 
The Evil Prince wrote:
doublebassy wrote:
The Evil Prince wrote:
doctorzap wrote:
how up to date is this database and is it in sync with the one
here

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=74

if not it is confusing to have conflicting bad sources databases


I have just updated four or five entries so the BS Database should now be "in sync" with the subforum.


It's not in sync. Stockholm 73 is in this list, but has been put out as an audio-only seed so is no longer in the sub-forum. Minneapolis/St Paul 80 is in the bad source sub-forum but not in this list. Liverpool 1970 Stage is in this list, but no longer in the sub-forum because the complete pre-broadcast tape is now available. I'm sure there are others. And I'd still like to see the Sydney 73 soundboard removed from both because it is not incomplete.


Thanks, updated.


Thanks for the quick work. Any chance of having those nifty little FIXED icons added to link to the new seeds? That would be excellent.
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NO8DO
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Joined: 2007-10-02
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Post 2011-01-24 10:27   [Quote] 
doublebassy wrote:
The Evil Prince wrote:
doublebassy wrote:
The Evil Prince wrote:
doctorzap wrote:
how up to date is this database and is it in sync with the one
here

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=74

if not it is confusing to have conflicting bad sources databases


I have just updated four or five entries so the BS Database should now be "in sync" with the subforum.


It's not in sync. Stockholm 73 is in this list, but has been put out as an audio-only seed so is no longer in the sub-forum. Minneapolis/St Paul 80 is in the bad source sub-forum but not in this list. Liverpool 1970 Stage is in this list, but no longer in the sub-forum because the complete pre-broadcast tape is now available. I'm sure there are others. And I'd still like to see the Sydney 73 soundboard removed from both because it is not incomplete.


Thanks, updated.


Thanks for the quick work. Any chance of having those nifty little FIXED icons added to link to the new seeds? That would be excellent.


I haven't got the time to do this, sorry.
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