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Original FZ Watercolor?  
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Brad Henserling
Joined: 2008-06-05
Posts: 37
Location: Texas
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Post 2010-12-06 18:16   [Quote] 
I just purchased a painting online that was sold as a Frank Zappa original.






I did a little research, but I was hoping some folks here could help me with their thoughts on its authenticity. I really want to think I found an original piece of his work, but it seems too good to be true. I came across the painting listed on the online auction site, webstore. The seller included two letters that were written by the previous owners about how they came to own the painting. The earliest letter is dated 1973 and was written by a woman who claims it was painted for her when she and FZ were friends at Community College in 1963 (Suzane R.). It also mentions that Zappa called her his little devil. Iím not sure if itís a good thing or a bad thing that this description and ďlittle devilĒ line are very similar to the info included about the watercolors on the United Mutations website here:

http://www.united-mutations.com/z/frank_zappa/fz_odd.htm

The second letter came from a woman named Norma B., stating that she (Norma) was given the painting by her friend Suzane R, whom she befriended while working at Fred Heymans in Beverly Hills. This letter is typed on a page that also includes the xeroxed image (in color) of two envelopes from Fred Heymans postmarked 1988.

Does anyone have any insight on this? Was I beeing foolish by hoping Iíd found an authentic FZ painting? If anyone here thinks itís worth it I can try to post scans of the letters and get better picts of the painting.
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old_zircon
Joined: 2007-04-30
Posts: 69
Post 2010-12-06 22:55   [Quote] 
I doesn't look so different than the other ones that have surfaced lately. You can compare it with some more of those FZ paintings here (I'll add yours and the other one from United Mutations to the list anytime soon):

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/notes/Paintings.html

The woman who appeared in the Antiques Roadshow selling one of those paintings filled with devils has been identified by his son as Sandy Cass:

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/videography/Antiques_Roadshow.html

By the way, you can see that video here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/archive/199806A16.html

Anyway, I don't think FZ was attending Community College in 1963. Does the letter mention which one?
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Brad Henserling
Joined: 2008-06-05
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Location: Texas
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Post 2010-12-06 23:43   [Quote] 
It doesn't say which school specifically, just that it was in L.A. I'll post the full letter tomorrow morning.
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Brad Henserling
Joined: 2008-06-05
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Location: Texas
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Post 2010-12-09 18:02   [Quote] 
Here's the full letter from the woman who claims to be the original recipient:



The 1963 date on the back of the painting is one of the things I'm curious about, as it seems late. Anyone have any ideas?

The letter reads:

To whom it may Concern:
I was friends with Frank Zappa when he (& I) we [sic] in Community College in L.A. We had parties on the beach and he would paint. He called me his little devil and painting w/ devils was one he gave me. It is signed also.
Suzane
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hoops
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Post 2010-12-09 19:24   [Quote] 
FZ was married to Kay Sherman in '63 and stayed in Ontario California (how far is that from the beach?), in fact his marriage was slowly crumbling throughout that year, he appeared on the Steve Allen show, worked a lot in Pal studio (later to become Studio Z), formed The Soots, started Aleatory Music publishing (for the Buff singles) and worked in all kinds of crummy bar-band jobs...i can't find any mention of attending Community College.

I'm really sorry but i personally think these community college paintings are a scam... we had a thread of discussion about these before and my own view is that stylistically the difference in the paintings is a dead giveaway. Compare the Terry wimberly picture, antiques roadshow, 'horny' together...there's a style running through these...even running back to the 'no picnic' picture. Whereas the community college ones have a style of their own, you can see that Four season of Love, little super devil, untitled c 58 and the one you own are all done by the same person but have no connection whatsoever to the others (which, let's face it, have much more of a believable provenance)...and some of these are meant to have been done in the same years...!?
So, unfortunately i think that it's a cynical scam (or has been in the past)....and unless the person selling these can come up with a more provable background i'll continue to think so..

If it's at all possible, i'd try and get my monet back if i was you too

_________________
"Well, look, it depends on what the intent is. If the intent is to rip me off, then I hate it. If the intent is to find out what's going on, then I think it's fabulous. ."
- Frank Zappa (from They're Doing The Interview Of The Century)

Try the vines, you'll love it, it's a way of life...

That's the way the cookie crumbled..
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wildfisherman
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Joined: 2006-01-29
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Post 2010-12-09 19:40   [Quote] 
Hoops wrote:
i'd try and get my monet back


Nice slip - I don't think he ever had a Monet
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hoops
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Post 2010-12-09 19:44   [Quote] 
wildfisherman wrote:
Hoops wrote:
i'd try and get my monet back


Nice slip - I don't think he ever had a Monet


Laughing I'd love to say i meant that!

_________________
"Well, look, it depends on what the intent is. If the intent is to rip me off, then I hate it. If the intent is to find out what's going on, then I think it's fabulous. ."
- Frank Zappa (from They're Doing The Interview Of The Century)

Try the vines, you'll love it, it's a way of life...

That's the way the cookie crumbled..
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yetanother
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Post 2010-12-09 20:46   [Quote] 
Shit, you traded an original Monet for a fake Zappa? That's what I call a bad deal roflol

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Brad Henserling
Joined: 2008-06-05
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Post 2010-12-09 23:13   [Quote] 
Thanks for your quick replies. I'll see if I can get in contact with the seller - I clearly have no time Toulouse.
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drdork
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Post 2010-12-09 23:28   [Quote] 
hoops wrote:
i can't find any mention of attending Community College.

"Community college" is a general term, not the name of a specific institution. Like the earlier term "junior college", it refers to an institution offering two-year degrees. And FZ certainly attended Chaffey Junior College for one semester, though it was earlier than 1963.

hoops wrote:
Compare the Terry wimberly picture, antiques roadshow, 'horny' together...there's a style running through these...even running back to the 'no picnic' picture.

And forward to the cover of Absolutely Free!
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hoops
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Post 2010-12-10 08:47   [Quote] 
Brad Henserling wrote:
Thanks for your quick replies. I'll see if I can get in contact with the seller - I clearly have no time Toulouse.

Laughing
Seriously though, good luck...
drdork wrote:
hoops wrote:
i can't find any mention of attending Community College.

"Community college" is a general term, not the name of a specific institution. Like the earlier term "junior college", it refers to an institution offering two-year degrees. And FZ certainly attended Chaffey Junior College for one semester, though it was earlier than 1963..

Yes, that's right...the last time these pictures turned up in a thread i found out that it's an umbrella term for that kind of institution...and as you say Chaffee Junior College was earlier...

drdork wrote:
hoops wrote:
]Compare the Terry wimberly picture, antiques roadshow, 'horny' together...there's a style running through these...even running back to the 'no picnic' picture.

And forward to the cover of Absolutely Free!


Good call....i think FZ was primarily an illustrator, when you hear him talk about art he almost always says 'drawing' not painting...i know he did screen-printing for the greeting cards job too, but this whole thing just strikes me as bogus

_________________
"Well, look, it depends on what the intent is. If the intent is to rip me off, then I hate it. If the intent is to find out what's going on, then I think it's fabulous. ."
- Frank Zappa (from They're Doing The Interview Of The Century)

Try the vines, you'll love it, it's a way of life...

That's the way the cookie crumbled..


Last edited by hoops on 2010-12-12 08:56; edited 1 time in total
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scoobie
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Post 2010-12-12 06:14   [Quote] 
Brad Henserling wrote:
Thanks for your quick replies. I'll see if I can get in contact with the seller - I clearly have no time Toulouse.


I love this place Laughing
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brainpang
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Joined: 2007-02-01
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Post 2011-01-08 19:28   [Quote] 
Very interesting, appreciate you sharing. My chief suspicion is that why would someone sell it on an obscure, little site like "webstore" and not the big boy ebay? I mean, the purpose is to get as much money as possible, right? Suspicious, to say the least.
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